It would have to be a great offer for me to be happy to trade him, absolute minimum would be a top 10 pick.

Even then I'd baulk. IMO for any player-for-draft-pick trade to be worth the risk, the player has to be expendable, i.e. if you trade him and then draft a dud (always a highly likely outcome, regardless of draft position), what's the net loss? I believe the net loss for losing Rivers would be too high, as he is a player with rare abilities for reading the play, and he has leadership qualities.

If we were talking about someone like Bruce, he's a very good but flawed player, so while we'd lose a very good player we'd also lose a player who is a liability with his disposal at times. He's the sort I'd be looking at trading for picks. TJ was also a very good player-for-pick trade.

Rivers is a good player, but he's not a true KPP and he doesn't kick goals. For me he's expendable for the right deal, but I understand that many supporters will writhe in anger at such a thought. I'll do anything that's going to improve our list going forward and give us the best prospects of developing a premiership list.

And yes Cooney was pick 1. in 03. So ? We didn't have pick one and he's about the only A grader out of that pathetic draft.

if we had 2 or 3 players like rivers we could trade one of them. we don't. you will find that clubs that trade a quality player have a salary cap issue and an emabarrassment of riches of a particular type of player.

if we had 2 or 3 players like rivers we could trade one of them. we don't. you will find that clubs that trade a quality player have a salary cap issue and an emabarrassment of riches of a particular type of player.

Trade Riv? High Risk / Low Return

if we had 2 or 3 players like rivers we could trade one of them. we don't. you will find that clubs that trade a quality player have a salary cap issue and an emabarrassment of riches of a particular type of player.

I completely understand every point of view which leads to the retention of Rivers, and one doesn't need to be Einstein to realise that the club probably won't even entertain the idea, and if we were relatively close to a flag it wouldn't be a consideration, but facts are, we're in serious rebuild mode and a flag isn't on the horizon. We're not going to rangle a pick around 10 without giving up something very good and I doubt that any other player will realistically get such a deal done.

I want Morton, Grimes, Maric, Jones, Wonaeamirri, Bate, Cheney, MacNamara, etc, all coming through together with four top 18 picks in this years draft, so that in 5 years time we've a realistic shot at a flag. Short term pain for the greater good.

How do we get another decent first round pick ? We need one.

You only trade when you can get a benefit from trading.

Gone

Retiring- Neitz, Holland, Yze, Whelan

De-list Weetra, CJ, Bode

Offer for trade and what is min I would accept

Dunn late second round pick top 35 pick

Newton Early second round pick say top 30 pick

Bell Late second round pick top 40 pick

Sylvia top 20 pick

Bruce top 25 pick

Green Top 25 pick

I'm not saying trade all those players but if a club was to offer a pick as per the above you would have to consider it.

I doubt we'd get for Rivers what we think he's worth to us. For pick 15, the risk/return doesn't seem right for us at that price.

Rivers is a good player, but he's not a true KPP and he doesn't kick goals. For me he's expendable for the right deal, but I understand that many supporters will writhe in anger at such a thought. I'll do anything that's going to improve our list going forward and give us the best prospects of developing a premiership list.

And yes Cooney was pick 1. in 03. So ? We didn't have pick one and he's about the only A grader out of that pathetic draft.

Yeah I know, I was just saying look how long its taken Cooney to develop, maybe Brock and Sylvia will have vast improvements over the next couple of years.

Trading Rivers would definitely be a brave move, not sure if it would be smart one though. Rivers brings alot to the team, even when he doesn't play. His leadership and experience are invaluable to the other defenders, particularly important as we're rebuilding the defence and our future KPP's have only played a handful of games.

It would have to be a great offer for me to be happy to trade him, absolute minimum would be a top 10 pick.

I agree: gotta be in the top 10 to let Rivers go. Even then, I would still feel bad doing it. He could well be the most experienced defender on our list considering what people think may happen to Carroll, Whelan etc.

Like last year we should be looking to use all our picks which would require at least 6 players move on.

Also we would like to elevate Wooz and perhaps Valenti..

therefor really me need to create 8 spots...

Tough decisions need to be made...

RETIRED

Neitz

TRADE

Bruce or Green

Trade, Retire or Delist

Jamar

Weetra

Whelan

McDonald

Wheatley

C Johnson

Bode

Robbo still has 1 year to run on his contract as does Jamar so we cant afford to delist players and pay extra $$$$

Still think White has another year left in him perhaps as a perm forward. Hopefully we would have acquired the Fijian by then.

Robbo still has 1 year to run on his contract as does Jamar so we cant afford to delist players and pay extra $$$$

So does Bode.

This year's list management will be interesting. There's players on our list who in my eyes are deadwood, but will probably hang around due to contracts, such as Bode and Jamar. Robbo must surely be about finished with this injury, but he's under contract for next year as well.

At the start of the year I thought Warnock was toast, but he seems to have suddenly put pedal to metal.

How do we manage our ruck list? If White doesn't retire we'll still have White, Jamar, Meesen and PJ on the list. Meesen and Jamar are contracted, PJ has to be safe at this stage, and White would probably be offered another contract if he doesn't retire. We're stuck with all four.

If we're to promote both Wonaeamirri and Valenti, then we need to delist 5 senior players. In no particular order:

Neitz (retired)

Yze

CJ

Weetra

Holland

Other candidates for the gun are Carroll and Whelan depending on their contract status.

Even then I'd baulk. IMO for any player-for-draft-pick trade to be worth the risk, the player has to be expendable, i.e. if you trade him and then draft a dud (always a highly likely outcome, regardless of draft position), what's the net loss? I believe the net loss for losing Rivers would be too high, as he is a player with rare abilities for reading the play, and he has leadership qualities.

If we were talking about someone like Bruce, he's a very good but flawed player, so while we'd lose a very good player we'd also lose a player who is a liability with his disposal at times. He's the sort I'd be looking at trading for picks. TJ was also a very good player-for-pick trade.

Can't argue with that, but I'm sure others will find a way

I think a few ( if not more ) of us are really echoing each other here.. Essentially. He's not untradable, but ift would need to be a pretty good deal. I agree Riv isnt a true CHB..but very handy floater...and hge clams things down. My preference is to keep..but If it were my door it'd always be open to listen to anyone with a proposition.

Yze_Magic........................Sylvia .......Come on.

Your crack pipe must be well used. The bloke is a pathetic waste of a spot on our senior list. No-one will want him. Ego too big, performances too low. If he was a horse I would have put a bullet between his eyes a long time ago. Sad thing is I reckon the dogs wouldn't even eat his carcass.

If you want Colin gone at seasons end, you are gonna be dissappointed.

Bailey would be salivating at what he sees in Sylvia, and will relish the opportunity to help him reach great heights in his footy career.

And Sylvia has had a good season, so I dunno why you are saying he is useless.

If you want Colin gone at seasons end, you are gonna be dissappointed.

Bailey would be salivating at what he sees in Sylvia, and will relish the opportunity to help him reach great heights in his footy career.

And Sylvia has had a good season, so I dunno why you are saying he is useless.

I agree, sort of. Sylvia's a good player. Not the star we would have hoped for, but good none-the-less. He's missed the boat for being a star though.

There's at least 7 uncontracted players I can think of in the gun before him.

There's at least 7 uncontracted players I can think of in the gun before him.

probably the only thing saving his 'nads at the moment!!

I think a few ( if not more ) of us are really echoing each other here..

Yep.

probably the only thing saving his 'nads at the moment!!

I don't think so. IMHO, we'd be unlikely to delist him this year, given his early years were plagued with injuries, and the fact he's still quite young.

To the guy who said Sylvia wouldn't be going anywhere, surely we'd entertain a decent trade offer. Not a delist, though.

probably the only thing saving his 'nads at the moment!!

I don't agree at all. As I said, I think he's a handy player.

As H said earlier in this thread, how would you rate him if he'd been taken at pick 60 in his draft, rather than 3?

If Rivers is traded it is after Bruce and Green have also been traded.

The value of Rivers is his footy IQ in the backline, not a true KPP in the strictest sense, but his value is his leadership of the backline and his courage to provide his body to help his teammates.

Frankly I think he has 5 years left in the game, considering the way he plays. Will we be threat inside that? I don't know... I hope so...

Anyway, no club is going to give what we expect in trade week, due to his injury concerns.

If Rivers is traded it is after Bruce and Green have also been traded.

id probably agree. but its really down to the market..i.e who wants whom. Clubs are always in the driving seat on this..

LOL @ Jared Rivers being traded.

Thats all I can really say.

LOL @ Jared Rivers being traded.

Thats all I can really say.

why ?? Doesnt the word "pragmatism" occur in your vocabulary ??

why ?? Doesnt the word "pragmatism" occur in your vocabulary ??

Well, no it doesnt actually.

Please explain!

Well, no it doesnt actually.

Please explain!

I have,,, above, maybe reading isnt in your skillset YM ?

Does anyone believe that we will win a flag in the next 5 years ? I don't. Realistically, 6-7 years will be our next window due to this rebuild, when Morton, Grimes, Jones, and the next batch of picks will be around 24-26. How old will Rivers be then - 30/31 ? How fast will he be then ? How fast will the game be then ?

For pick 10 it's very worthy of consideration depending upon how our recruiters rate this draft. Currently pick 10 means nothing to most supposrters, it's just a number, but if the hype is to be believed, pick 10 should yield a very very good player. Would he even yield pick 10 ? He'd probably go close. We won't rise up the ladder without hard decisions.

As for the person saying that Sylvia would yield pick 20, you're dreaming. And I doubt Bell would get you a cold pie.

Does anyone believe that we will win a flag in the next 5 years ? I don't. Realistically, 6-7 years will be our next window due to this rebuild, when Morton, Grimes, Jones, and the next batch of picks will be around 24-26. How old will Rivers be then - 30/31 ? How fast will he be then ? How fast will the game be then ?

For pick 10 it's very worthy of consideration depending upon how our recruiters rate this draft. Currently pick 10 means nothing to most supposrters, it's just a number, but if the hype is to be believed, pick 10 should yield a very very good player. Would he even yield pick 10 ? He'd probably go close. We won't rise up the ladder without hard decisions.

As for the person saying that Sylvia would yield pick 20, you're dreaming. And I doubt Bell would get you a cold pie.

Rivers isnt going anywhere. Very good chance that next year or the year after he will be our most experienced defenders. You cannot trade away all of your experience regardless of whether they are likely to play in a GF or not. We need a general in the back half. we have a leadership vacuum that will get worse still.

Rivers is the type of commodity we need to recruit rather than dispose of for an unknown quantity.

Rivers has marking ability and above all brains and poise. Clone him dont trade him. Rivers, Jones, Mclean, Davey, Austin, Garland, P Johnson wont be traded.

Does anyone believe that we will win a flag in the next 5 years ? I don't. Realistically, 6-7 years will be our next window due to this rebuild, when Morton, Grimes, Jones, and the next batch of picks will be around 24-26. How old will Rivers be then - 30/31 ? How fast will he be then ? How fast will the game be then ?

ooooh...carefull.. warning....danger Will Robinson.. Logic ahead !!!!

Hannabal..exactly... this seems to be lost on many..its all about timing isnt it.