Who will be out the door at seasons end?

[Gouga 511]

Last time I looked Rivers was 23 - 24 in October. The problem is he'll be a slow tall back of about 30 when we're next a realistic flag chance. And MacNamara, or someone else may be be keeping him down at Casey. The good news is that at 23, and still a good footballer, he may get us another first round pick. We need one.

I actually don't think an injury prone undersized KPP, as good as Rivers is, will get us a first rounder.

[Hannabal 4]

..pleae review our options folks regarding messrs, Green, Bruce, Rivers, Sylvia, Miller etc

The real dilemma is that nearly all the players you mention have little value at trade table in terms of quality draft picks. That's why Rivers appeals. As you know, it's not because I don't like him, or rate him, it's because he has value.

Some here seem to think that 3 picks in the top 20 is good, and it is, but we should be trying for at least another.

[Hannabal 4]

I actually don't think an injury prone undersized KPP, as good as Rivers is, will get us a first rounder.

You may be right. But we need to find out.

[beelzebub 22,242]

The real dilemma is that nearly all the players you mention have little value at trade table in terms of quality draft picks. That's why Rivers appeals. As you know, it's not because I don't like him, or rate him, it's because he has value.

Some here seem to think that 3 picks in the top 290 is good, and it is, but we should be trying for at least another.

mate..I dont disagree with you..and its the lsson of Green etc that calls into question how we go about managing the value of Rivers.

We may only be able to get mimimum value for some..and that may well cause their stay at Demonland to further..but to what real end ?

Id like to muster in some manner 5 picks in teh first 80 if possible..Who gets sacrficed for that..well..time will tell.

What annoys me is that some players will remain, not on merit but due to lack of currency in a tight market.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What annoys me is that some players will remain, not on merit but due to lack of currency in a tight market.

They will slowly be rolled off the list at contract end over the next 2 years or if they do have any worth to the team at their reduced market value.

[Rogue 585]

Hannabal knows the score re: Rivers.

I admit I would be disappointed to see him line up against us, though.

[Kit Walker 207]

There is much talk (typed talk) about this being the last year for decent draft picks - but that's only so far as ladder position goes.

Depending on GC/West Sydney's final draft concessions, there may be a fair opportunity to be trading for top 20 draft picks over the next 2-4 years with clubs that want to get the youth-experience level right straight away so that they can be competitive in difficult markets.

I doubt that the pick/s that Rivers would get on the open (trade) market would warrant a trade at this stage after a few injury affected years, but would Aaron Davey for instance be worth a top 5-10 draft pick for such a side? Is he worth that to us?

[Anders 14]

And here comes the easiest part of each coaches job....the cut

Now, though I haven't cut everyone I wanted......I have cut a lot of you...

Weetra - sayonara - we all agree

CJ - likewise - SOFT as

Bode - worst player on the list. I'm amazed he's played an AFL game

Newton - WAY to slow, immobile

Almost everyone else = tradeable (if possible)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I would have thought the Bris Bears experience of picking up other teams NQRs would encourage GC/WS to hold their draft picks and develop their youth. It would be an exceptional player that comes up that breaks that strategy.

[beelzebub 22,242]

Youd be probably right to think theyd (GC/WS) hold on to their youth..possibly augment with a few "add ins" but not build around them.

[Kit Walker 207]

I would have thought the Bris Bears experience of picking up other teams NQRs would encourage GC/WS to hold their draft picks and develop their youth. It would be an exceptional player that comes up that breaks that strategy.

Possibly, but would Davey be a (to use your term) NQR, or rather a player with instant appeal who they may be willing to pay slightly over the odds for? Particularly if they still have a number of early draft picks anyway.

I'm hardly suggesting Jamar or Weetra for pick 17.

[Hannabal 4]

I doubt that the pick/s that Rivers would get on the open (trade) market would warrant a trade at this stage after a few injury affected years

There's no doubt that Rivers inability to get on the park may impede his value. I'm hoping for a solid last half of the year.

Let's not forget that Cameron Wood got Brisbane pick 14 last year.

[WestPerth Falcon 0]

I would look at some different options of maybe trading our number 1 pick for 3 or 4 good players.

Being a WA boy west coast has a few victoriams i would like Ashley Hansen is a good CHF who is a vice captain at there club.

Brent Staker can play foward or back hs great pontential but can be inconstistent at times but players every week.

Matt Rosa is a gun runs all day.Then ad in Mark Seaby a quality ruckman the only reason hes not playing every week

is cause dean cox is so damn good.Plus west coast like to pinch hit with lynch so they can play another midfielder

to cover there lack of pace.

Then get warnock through preseason draft and watch them double team together like they do at west perth now.

The press over here say west coast is desperate to get pick 1 or 2 so i say we bleed them for above players.

Hansen and Staker would play a 100 games for us Rosa and Seaby 150+ games.

The other player from that club i would like is Adam Hunter but we would only get 1 other player for a player of that quality

by trading our number 1 pick.

Then there is daniel kerr he would be amazing to get but we would have to give up number 1 plus two other quality young players

not worth it as we need depth, which first option does give us.

So 4 players for number pick would be good for us.

Can i ask some of you guys to look at some melbourne teams and suggest 3 or 4 players that we could trade for to get number 1

draft pick?

[Hannabal 4]

I understand the angle that you're coming from, but you'll find that very few clubs will go down the Dennis Pagan path. Jonathon Hay will also be top of mind.

We need to rebuild and have Morton, Wonaeamirri, Grimes, Maric, Jones, Petterd, and Bate coming through with 4 of the best kids in this draft.

No quick fixes for me. I'll cop 3 crap years if I know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Possibly, but would Davey be a (to use your term) NQR, or rather a player with instant appeal who they may be willing to pay slightly over the odds for? Particularly if they still have a number of early draft picks anyway.

I'm hardly suggesting Jamar or Weetra for pick 17.

Davey has some magical skills but also has some shortcomings. It depends on how a side would value him. Gut feeling I think he is possibly somewhere around pick 18 to 25. Possibly favour the Hawks or North. Not for Bullies, Collingwood, Geelong or Adelaide.

Just speculation!

[BennytheJet 15]

Davey has some magical skills but also has some shortcomings. It depends on how a side would value him. Gut feeling I think he is possibly somewhere around pick 18 to 25. Possibly favour the Hawks or North. Not for Bullies, Collingwood, Geelong or Adelaide.

You guys are joking right?? Even considering trading 1 & 2 in the rising star a couple years ago for a speculative top 20 pick?? And 2 players who are exactly what we need - a kpp defender and a forward/midfielder with pace and skills? Get real

Injury problems aside - trading players like davey and rivers would only alienate the club and knowing our luck we'd get another nick smith or luke molan. AND by the time the current crop of draftees can push for a flag, davey and rivers will be the exp players we need to lead them.

Anyone under 25 = stays on the list (unless its jamar, chris johnson, or bode)

[grazman 6,525]

1. We have a large stock of very young players, backed by a strong development coahcing unit and a head coach who firmly believes in focusing on development.

2. Trading even the better players rarely gets more than a late first round draft pick.

3. An extra draft pick here and there is overrated as a path to the top of the ladder.

4. Brad Green has five years left, which will be very good.

5. The rest of our veteran players are considerably older/injury prone and likely to retire (or already have) within the next 18 months.

6. Matthew Bate and Cale Morton will constitue one of the best HF lines in the game very soon. So who knows what else comes next?

Good perspective there DD. I completely agree. I think the natural temptation for supporters in a poor year is to trade half the list and delist the rest. (and no H I'm not specifically refering to you ). I think priority number 1 is to trade those that have value that don't measure up to the core values of the club., then delist those those that have no value. Those still under contract have a little grace, but they should be told in no uncertain terms what the club stands for. It's why I think someone like Newton will be traded ahead of the likes of Bruce and Rivers. I think there's a lot of assumptions being made about how best to build a list... I wonder whether people will change their mind if the Bulldogs win the premiership rather than the Hawks?

[Rogue 585]

by the time the current crop of draftees can push for a flag, davey and rivers will be the exp players we need to lead them.

Considering our lack of KPPs atm, I wouldn't put the house on that.

I'm also not convinced Rivers is a KPP.

[Hannabal 4]

Our recruiters will do an exhaustive analysis of the top 20. A decision to trade any player will be on the back of what they perceive to be the likely outcomes. If they're shaky on what will be available they'll tread cautiously, if they're bullish on the first round talent they'll throw a few bones.

Facts about Rivers: he's hardly played for 2 years; he doesn't take the oppositions best forward; he's too slow on the lead for Riewoldt/Franklin types but also he's not a KPP.

I think that Rivers is a very good player, but he's hardly indispensible when we're rebuilding and a minimum of 5 years from being a genuine threat.

I must say though that I wouldn't trade Davey. I have issues with him as a player, but more than ever with the changing face of the game and his ability to take the game on he's a valuable commodity.

[Jaded No More 58,424]

I must say though that I wouldn't trade Davey. I have issues with him as a player, but more than ever with the changing face of the game and his ability to take the game on he's a valuable commodity.

So Davey will still be a vital part of the team in 7 years when we're ready to challenge for the flag?

[Hannabal 4]

So Davey will still be a vital part of the team in 7 years when we're ready to challenge for the flag?

How the fug do I know ? Get your tea leaves out.

[Jaded No More 58,424]

How the fug do I know ? Get your tea leaves out.

Well Davey and Rivers are around the same age, but you don't think Rivers will be a contributing member of our side in 7 years, so why would Davey? A couple more bad hamstrings, or heaven forbid a knee reconstruction and his best attribute will be gone. He won't be running them down from behind in 7 years.

[Hannabal 4]

Well Davey and Rivers are around the same age, but you don't think Rivers will be a contributing member of our side in 7 years, so why would Davey? A couple more bad hamstrings, or heaven forbid a knee reconstruction and his best attribute will be gone. He won't be running them down from behind in 7 years.

Rivers may be a contributing member in 5-7 years, but I believe that he's dispensible for an early draft pick. I also believe that with the pace of the game combined with his lack of pace, and the fact that there's certain players he can't matchup on cos he can't keep up on the lead he's worth putting up. If he stays terrific, we'll still have a very good defender.

I'll paint a picture next.

[sylvinator 96]

Most of you guyz have no idea. never read such rubbish before in my life.

Trading Davey who's 24 because in 7 yrs he might not be contributing? are you all mad? Rivers and Davey are 2 of the most marketable and skillful players at our club.

And for all you knobjockeys who say we won't be vying for a flag for another 7 years....

Look at Geelong in 2004

they were bottom 4. They were considered a plodder midfield. Ling, Bartel, Corey--- all one paced midfielders and too slow apparently. Kelly was considered a complete an utter waste and Mooney and Gablett were extremely inconsistent player. S.Johnson was a hothead and Ottens was the worst waste of a trade in history with all his groin problems.

Fast track to 2007--- Geelong the unbeatable side. 9 AllAustralians. wins the premiership by 120 points.

The point... things change very quickly in football.

We already have made a good start in drafting the last 3 years. add another 3-4 highly rated youngsters next year and we'v got something on a rounded lineup.

Honestly ppl who think it takes 7 years to build a team have no clue about how footy works. You just need a successful culture, a good coach, and for all the players to click at the same time. you also need ur best players out on the park each week.

[Rogue 585]

And for all you knobjockeys who say we won't be vying for a flag for another 7 years....

Look at Geelong in 2004

they were bottom 4. They were considered a plodder midfield. Ling, Bartel, Corey--- all one paced midfielders and too slow apparently. Kelly was considered a complete an utter waste and Mooney and Gablett were extremely inconsistent player. S.Johnson was a hothead and Ottens was the worst waste of a trade in history with all his groin problems.

Not that it invalidates your point, but in 2004 Geelong actually finished 4th. They haven't finished bottom four in a long time, but 2001-03 they finished 12th, 9th, and 12th.