Ted Lasso

The AFL is upset beccause they were made to look stupid and corrupt, and didn't get their own way.

It's amazing how many supporters still believe Jobe has done a brave and noble thing by handing the brownlow back, and those supporters are saying Jobe has more integrity than Cotchin or Mitchell. I still feel strongly if he was doing this by choice and looking to honor what the award stands for and all that he claimed he would have done this the day the appeal failed, not months later when talk is getting around that he's going to lose it anyway, it's pretty obvious in my opinion that the AFL have tipped him off and given him the opportunity to look good.

you raise a good point but i don't think it should come into this, Watson and his votes should be struck from the 2012 record and they should just move on to the next best in my opinion.

Jobe giving the brownlow back, rather than it being taken does provide the AFL with an opportunity to simply write off the award for 2012. It really seems to be a question of, is the award void for that year because of all the muddy water and the time that has passed, or will he be treated as a player who didn't qualify for the award and so it should go to the next most worthy players i believe Mitchell and Cotchin should get one, because to not give them one really would be a penalty on two clean players when Jobe is the one who has done the wrong thing here. Mitchell and Cotchin shouldn't miss out on the games highest individual honor because it might hurt Jobe to see them with it, or because it's a complicated situation or because x amount of time has passed, they didn't appeal the decision multiple times, or run a dodgey tribunal. does giving Cotchin and Mitchell the award open up a can of worms with betting agencies, for example those who placed large bets on those players being annoyed and those who won big on Jobe being nervous or anything like that? i've got no idea. very interesting day ahead of us.

I have posted on here before that i know players who write down the serial numbers and take photos of the bottles of any substances they take for their records, this is strongly encouraged by their management and taught at under age level. i find it extremely hard to believe that 34 Essendon players didn't know exactly what they were taking, if they were lied to that's a different thing but the evidence and results in the cases doesn't at all point to that being the case, it points to a whole club effort to muddy the waters to the point no one can be sure what happened, and hope that means no one can be found guilty. lets remember that if any 1 of the 34 players could have produced compelling recorded evidence that they took something other than TB4 they would have been found not guilty, but clearly they had absolutely no idea, or they did and they hid it, either way it's the same outcome, they miss a year of footy and they're known as drug cheats, Jobe has handed down the brownlow, so i'd say they've served their time.

My biggest issue is that he's pushing a message that doesn't make sense, Jobe himself claimed he handed the medal back to protect what the award stands for but that's rubbish, if that was ever his real concern he would have handed it back the day the appeal failed, not months later when word starts getting around that the AFL was going to take it. the thing Jobe is clearly missing is that if he doesn't know what he took, he doesn't know he didn't do what he's been accused of and therefor he doesn't KNOW that he hasn't cheated. but he swears black and blue that he's done nothing wrong, implying that he knows for sure that he hasn't taken anything illegal, or feels that he's been duped, but he didn't ask questions, or bang WADA's door down to make sure he was clean, as players are instructed to do if they aren't sure. if it were me i'd be really keen to hand it back if i wasn't 100% sure what i'd done was within the rules, so i can't understand why he would feel he has any right to keep it if he couldn't prove he's done the right thing ( keeping in mind that providing accurate records of all substances he's taken is in his agreement and a job requirement and there is absolutely no excuse for any player under any circumstances not doing this )

Just read the Sun, how the hell is Slobbo employed in the media, that was the most biased load of rubbish i've ever seen! how can the AFL allow so much positive talk around a bloke who with his mates made a mockery of their rules and showed the whole world just how much integrity and strength the league really has.

Yes, and i suspect Crameri will get a decent boost as well having missed out on a premiership.

Mitchell and Cotchin should and i think will get one. To add to this i believe they should get medals because they should not miss out on the games highest individual honor because another player has been found guilty of breaking the rules later. they're rightful winners in my opinion.

Agreed, i felt we and others were having a strong debate without crossing the line, i suspect the mods aren't stoked about the same things being bought up over and over, but if that's the case, perhaps it's time to move on from this thread, the SAGA should be finally over with Jobe handing the medal back.

I'm not sure on that, but the EFC made it nearly impossible for them, which to me is a very un-Australian thing to do.

Saty for me it's quite simple, if Essendon provided any sort of records they could have cleared their name, they couldn't and didn't. every player is taught from u18 level how to record substances they take in detail and not one of the players did that despite an intense injection program that should have made such a simple thing more important than ever, anyone critical at ASADA isn't acknowledging how hamstrung they've been through this process, they had little to work with because little existed to prove anything, which in itself strongly hinted at wrongdoing. as for Jobe, he was never going to be able to keep the medal so i am glad that part of this story is now over, at least he handled that aspect of this reasonably well.

exactly, it will require some sort of deal being struck between the AFL and Jobe which is awful, the league answering to a player who has done the wrong thing is a really blunt reminder of the quality of leadership in the AFL

you may well be right, but i can't see Jobe willingly admitting any sort of guilt, and i think he'd view handing it back as admitting guilt, i think the AFL will have to take it.

I am waiting for, we felt that all the players had different circumstances within this SAGA and different levels of guilt and we couldn't strip the award without being able to establish just how much guilt jobe had blah blah blah then the first person with any common sense says, sorry Gil, it's not your job to decide guilt now.

They needed to keep this as simple as possible in my opinion, let Jobe know that if the appeal failed he'd lose the medal, that simple, if there is some sort of information out there that makes jobes case different from the rest of the players, the time to use it has been and gone, now the AFL just has to act.

But surely they do, he's been found guilty and lost on appeal, i'm not sure what information they could possibly need at this point.

for sure, but i can't see how they wouldn't have told Jobe that if the appeals failed they'd have to strip the medal, why they're letting him plead a case baffles me, he's now a convicted cheat. Rory Sloane could have missed out on a Brownlow for a slightly late bump this year...

I've heard Bombers supporters claim that because the "AFL" tribunal found them "not guilty" the WADA ruling is irrelevant and he should keep it. clearly they're delusional beyond words, but it seems the AFL may be just as bad simply because he still holds that medal.

I reckon that's what will happen, i just think it would be nothing short of embarrassing

I reckon we all do that though don't we? plenty were talking Jesse Hogan down before he re-signed, it seems once a player looks like leaving a club suddenly that club doesn't rate the player nearly as highly. he passed a medical and is expected to start pre-season right away so there can't be any huge issues.

I am amazed that it wasn't clear to Jobe and all involved that if the appeal failed he'd have to hand it back, there is no reason to hear from Jobe and even less to hear from Cotchin or Mitchell. a convicted drug cheat in 2012 cannot also be the "fairest" and best player in the very same year. the AFL just seems to lack the backbone to make the decision

a player who bumps someone slightly to high doesn't qualify for the Brownlow, but players guilty of systematic cheating and use of performance enhancing substances do. the sporting world will treat the AFL as more of a joke if they allow him to keep it.

Makes you wonder if Essendon won the flag in 2012 would Gil and the AFL have taken the flag off them you'd hope that and the brownlow would be no brainers.

Lewis and Hibberd are both beautiful kicks of the ball, our skill level just got a really timely boost! as well as composure, experienced leaders.