Diamond_Jim

Probably right but we really sunk ourselves imo when Richmond and then others became co mcg tenants. Our point of difference was lost and combined with abysmal on field performance we have continued downwards ever since. It'll take more than a change of captain to turn around 50 odd years of comparative failure. I'd start with trialling free entry for our matches against the lesser interstate sides.. Suns etc when played at the MCG. Most of the attendees at present are members anyway so the revenue loss may not be that great compared to the awareness boost.

saw that article... very disappointing and doubly disappointing that they are targeting the western suburbs.. enough almost to make me follow the Rabbitohs

I think we will look back on Gawn's career and say the team didn't really make use of his dominance. Recently I have been asking myself who was the more influential ruckman.. Max or Jeff White... Jeff at his peak rucked superbly, acted as the linkman when the ball was bought into the corridor and could take a wonderful high pack mark up forward. White's tactic f belting the ball forward from the centre bounce was often referred to as being as good as a kick. Okay zoning etc may have made that more difficult but I cannot think of many occasions when's Gawn's dominance has been used in a planned way.

by my quick calculation it was 74 wins for the decade ... take out 2017 and 2018 and.... well you don't want to know PS.. we won 72 games during the '70's so perhaps we are on the way up

Hi realise this should be on the cricket board but I was hoping for a wider readership. I'm an AFL member and used to go the cricket using the AFL reserve but haven't been for several years. Thinking of going on days 2 and 3 of the boxing day test. What's the position with just turning up as the reserved seats they are offering don't thrill me. At ticketek it says general admission category exhausted for the AFL reserve but I doubt it. I like to move in and out of the sun as the day progresses so a fixed seat is not my normal go. Many thanks

the Victorian government pay the Bulldogs to play twice a year at Ballarat where the capacity is 10k at most so there are deals to be had. Albury/Wodonga could be a possible place for us to play GWS if the money was right. Similarly Mildura against Port. On the use of Kardinia Park the deal would depend on both what the Ownership Trust could pay and what if any exclusivity rights Geelong have with the Trust. Geelong are certainly getting a good deal with a "clean" boutique stadium for their sole use largely funded by taxpayer money.

Interesting take on gambling. If you think about it a little the AFL are far more complicit in promoting gambling than cricket ever were with alcohol and tobacco. In the case of cricket they were "merely" promoting an evil to an existing market. In the case of the AFL they have been complicit in introducing gambling to people who would never have touched the traditional gambling routes of casinos, horses etc. They have taken a community sport and massively promoted it as a gambling tool. For the AFL to simply say that gambling is legal is too cute by far.

Interesting question and you need to do the sums. I suspect Kardinia Park would not work for us simply because of the geographical location of our supporter base. Casey would require massive investment to bring it to say a 20,000 seat stadium and that investment could not be justified for only 3-4 games. The other issue would be that Geelong (or more correctly the Ground Trust) as the owner would presumably want some form of ground rent that would defeat the purpose somewhat. A club that it might work for is Footscray. They could lobby the Governments who are funding the development that they should get co- tenancy for say 4 games. Their supporter base is growing in the Point Cook/Werribee area which is easy access to Geelong. In these days of electronic signage game day advertisments and stadium fit out are more easily changed and things like pouring rights and super boxes can be pro rated or the like. In the US many of the team relocations that we have seen over the years are teams moving to new cities who will provide a stadium effectively free of charge to the incoming team. As an aside if the AFL decide to "upgrade" Docklands where will the games be played that year. I'm no engineer but I would be surprised if you could easily update Docklands in a piecemeal manner like they did with the MCG.

I googled the golden calf and illuminati together and it took me to some very strange places. Could we save the Dees by writing a new Dan Brown like novel? In Hollywood you can hit it big by registering story lines for movies.. don't even have to write much........

Geelong are considering arguing for a minimum of nine home games at Kardinia and only two at the MCG. The stadium if finished will have a maximum crowd of 40k. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/what-s-best-fit-cats-mount-case-for-more-home-games-20191221-p53m2y.html Stadium economics are the new growth area. Unlike most stadium deals it is Geelong that get the ground advertising, the pouring rights money, the super box proceeds etc etc (with the ground's capital costs largely funded by taxpayer dollars) If the AFL redevelops Docklands and gives North, Bulldogs and Saints a good stadium deal (a big "if) we could end up in a classic squeeze play.

membership figures are so flaky with the endless categories. The only club that you can trust on membership figures are the Crows simply because they are closed as is WC but even those two would have a small number of interstate memberships. Add in the contra deals with sponsors. No doubt the NT government paid a fair share of its sponsorship dollar in the form of 3 game memberships that it used to encourage local attendance. (Smart idea but it fudges the figures.) The one thing the figures show are trends. An early trend we could look for is whether the GF guaranteed membership category is fully subscribed. Given 2019 that will be a good job done by the club if it can retain those numbers. My worry is that the 2019 loss is on the back of increased membership numbers and two NT games. While we have the two blockbusters that could deliver crowds of between 55 and 80k we will not in 2020 have the buffer of increased membership or the NT's Darwin contribution. In short 2020 could easily be worse and with a bad on field performance in 2020, 2021 could be a sea of red figures.

Poker machine income is inconsistent with sport and soon the AFL will be forced to ditch the betting income. Cricket faced the same problem years ago with tobacco and then alcohol sponsorship. If we have to rely on income from poker machines the model is wrong. The problem is obvious... stadium size... MCG is too big and we all hate Docklands. There's not a bag of magic beans sitting out there and everyone has known for years that ten teams in Melbourne (plus the Hawks and North coming back to Melbourne when Tasmania gets a team) means that the dollar is stretched. Extra AFL money will go to the expansion clubs for the next ten plus years at least so don't expect much from that source. TV revenue is at its maximum in real terms. Unless a broadcaster/streamer is prepared to use the AFL as a loss leader the sums don't make sense. Foxtel have made it clear that it's time to make money and that means it won't always be the cash cow that it has been. The sweet spot for the streamers (Netflix, Amazon, Disney etc) is around $15 per month which leaves no room to pay billions for sporting rights in a small market. The only saving grace is population growth but attendances while having grown do not seem to have matched the rate of population growth. On field success is just a bandaid unless it is sustained for ten plus years and we haven't manged that in the last fifty years. Finally there's the issue of operating costs. The football industry has a high level of human input at so many levels. Future productivity gains will come largely from automation. While there are some areas that might benefit (security perhaps) it won't be a game changer. PS... there are published costs of building stadiums around the world. One measure of cost is the cost per seat. Stadiums of around 50,000 are the most common. The new stadium in Perth has the highest cost per seat by a very big margin. These costs need to be paid for by advertisers, admission prices etc leaving less for the game itself. Go Dees.

cannot answer your question but here is a great article on the afl payments http://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=31622

so is politics but there's boundaries on a sporting board.... Mind you I will forever support your right to comment on the appropriate forum PS if you want to see a wonderfully agnostic discussion of a religious theme drop across to the discussion of Harley's golden calves.

well said.... time to break the model... How I'm not sure.... but it's the real discussion

not sure but I think this thread is starting to smell As Andy said time to calm it down religiously speaking

the Richmond salary cap team will be having a field day front loading all the remaining stars to allow for the next free agent raid at the end of 2020

must say I thought the same thing but I will give him the benefit of the doubt in that it was only when he started pre-season that he realised his heart/body wasn't in it.

No trip to the fabulous Port oval for the exquisite Burra burger nor to Frankston oval by the sea. Coburg oval closed for renovations. The wonderful traditional grounds are fading. We do get a game at Preston but the old Preston oval is unrecognizbale if compared to its traditional self. Enjoy the VFL while you can. It's a dying comp.

I'm starting to see the synergy. Hedonism at its most extreme. The cave of the Golden calf was a famous night club in Pre World war 1 London . "The Cave of the Golden Calf was a night club in London. In existence for only two years immediately before the First World War, it epitomised decadence, and still inspires cultural events. Its name is a reference to the Golden Calf of the Biblical story, an icon of impermissible worship." "The building became a post office and can be seen in the background of the cover of David Bowie's album The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars"

Is the closed session held at the same venue? cheers

a little over the top Mr Terrier but there is a grain of truth in what you say. (Mind you the AFL stepped in only when Eddie said he wanted the game back.) Not sure it deserved the outrage. Would Collingwood have waited another year... we may never know https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/magpies-eager-for-their-share-of-queen-s-birthday-gate-20180604-p4zjfr.html "The other issue is that we're alternating Anzac eve with Richmond," Jackson said. He said it was Richmond's turn to host the game next year and, should Collingwood host the holiday blockbuster, the Demons would not have either game in one season. "I don't think that timing's right for a smaller club like the Melbourne Football Club," Jackson said.

they were all almost broke at stages during the eighties if that is any help. The AFL commission and the TV rights saved all the clubs. The next fifty years is the problem. By then we will have 100k members and will pack the MCG. Mind you Richmond will have 350k members and will have virtual stadiums dotted around the city for their overflow. (mind you VR could mean no one goes to the stadium at all due to the public transport trip taking 3 hours each way from the inner suburbs of Pakenham... )

North have done that almost and they are still going backwards or at best treading water. It's not easy. Brisbane had 3-5 years of success when it was a hot ticket in town but end of 2019 aside it barely draws a crowd.

It is in the Pentitude if that helps.