rjay

It's probably about time to give Cook a run against kids around his own age. We have been pinch hitting in the forward line with Rivers and Garland anyway so let's see if he can stand up. Let Garland take Cornes as a defensive forward. Couch deserves a run and with Petterd still carrying and injury and Gysberts only just back from injury then maybe he is the one to come in from Tappy although they may also choose Tynan in a similar role (playing forward and back).

Would you have Brock over Gys? because that is the swap.

Beat me to it Chook, I think they made a big mistake last year not playing him in the GF. Very versatile and hard at it player who can kick, would really take to the responsability I think.

I think Sam needs to be played and pushed at senior level he really has a lot to offer, but you are right and I have mentioned before, he does go to ground to much and this is not through opposition pressure, he falls over. You run faster on 2 legs Sam not crawling.

That's really interesting, where do you think the gold is before it bottoms out? are the top picks being highlighted because of a lack of opposition and if so are they not as good as has been quoted?

Sorry my mistake, I knew it wasn't in the last but only watching on TV didn't pick up when.

Yes but remember he was one of the mids that was crunched by the Pie crew, so whilst he worked hard and got a lot of ball he was badly beated by Swan, Beams, Wellingham and Sidebottom. Thomas and McKenzie were a match up so draw your own conclusions on that one.

He went back at the end of the 3rd. He had no obvious match up in their forward line apart from maybe Goldsak who Tommy Mac had so it was worth a shot. I must admit it was a strange looking back 6 with Tommy Mac, Nicho, Watts, Sellar and it seemed Morton with Frawley the only constant.

Too early for Gys back one game after his previous comeback of a few minutes. Green is injured and struggling anyway, his kicking has gone missing and that was a strength. Stef Martin may come back in but also hasn't had much match time. If Couch were to come in it would have to be for Moloney or maybe Magna or as sub for Dunn, maybe not. I would like to have a look at Cook, he strikes me as the type of player who would play better in top company. He didn't look out of place in the early NAB cup round robin last year. Davey, Petterd, Bennel, Bate??? Tynan just back from injury, has a go and is flexible? Maybe Davis deserves a run. All up I don't think we have a lot of options at the moment.

No, they put some work into him because he has been damaging the last 3 weeks. This is a great learning experience for him and he still played a good game for us considering how we were crunched out of the middle and the amount of ball coming in. Speaking of that, Frawley was well and truly our best today beating Cloke with the amount of ball and quality of ball coming in. Clarke and Howe also good. Jones, Grimes whilst they worked hard were well beaten in the middle today.

Match ups Sellar - Cloke McKenzie - Thomas

Agree with you on Grimes as well, with an injury free run i think he will get there.

Yep. I will judge these guys on what they have done and the current crop if and when they get there http://www.afl.com.au/aflhq/awards/halloffame/legends/tabid/855/default.aspx

Agree with you on these Adam. I still think Ablett is the best going around but Cotchin is the future or should it be Selwood?

If Jetta hadn't taken a dive then Joel Mac wouldn't have been tripped up on top of him. Maybe Joel should have received the free for a trip James?

Yep, as I've said earlier I think he will stay so I guess we are talking about the principle here. The developing midfield group you've mentioned plus players like Frawley, Watts, Garland, Blease, McDonald as a group are where the value is in my opinion and I wouldn't like us to tip the balance by bringing in a Cloke and risk loosing one or a couple of these guys or to cause some dissent in the group as a whole. I also think there may be opportunties to pick up a good young GC or GWS player that would be a better fit that we may miss or a Freo player if Cloke does move there. You asked whether I thought we would be a stronger chance for a flag with a Cloke, Clark forward line and midfield maturation and I guess this is the argument. My concern is that it would bring disharmony to the group and be conterproductive. So I only think we would be a stronger chance if we could guarantee everything would be happy and all the players were on the same track, I just don't think it would be the case.

No mate no long bow the point is simple, I don't think Cloke is the right fit for us. To me we would be putting to much into one player. It obviously didn't escape you at all.

...and the only 2 teams that do according to your criterea are both struggling. Anyway, this is a round about way of saying that in my opinion Cloke would not be a good get for us. I think we are better to build from within through development and recruiting and maybe pickup a player along the way who is not demanding the $'s that Cloke is believed to be after. I know a lot think he is worth it but I don't, it's just an opinion neither right or wrong. We probably won't get a chance to test it anyway as I think he will stay a pie, now that one we can test.

The point is their midfield is streets ahead of ours at the moment, let's not get in the classification argument again.

I'm not so sure about that, I guess it's the old Chinese whispers thing, but I didn't hear him as being adamant at all. It sounded to me as more of an ambit claim, but let's wait and see. If he holds off until the end of the season you would think he is gone otherwise he will be signing in the next month and staying.

I think you are pretty much on the money so to speak.

I think you might be under rating Priddis quite a bit. He is one of the top mids in the game now and Kerr on his day really gives them a lift, we don't have anyone anywhere near that level. I agree with you that they are a vey even side.

My point is we've fired our shot with Clark, he's our Ottens if you like. Geelong then had Mooney (later Pods), a good handy player but no star and Hawkins, a kid still developing they didn't go and shell out the big bucks for Brown. Is there another Mooney or Pods out there, can Cook, Sheahan or Watts be the Hawkins. Cloke is what 25yo now and will be 26 at the start of next season, 5 years is way to long for a player of his type. Brown is now past his best at 30, still a good player, love him but a shadow of his former self. These guys break down at a younger age because of all the bash and crash and the weight they carry (Fletcher, Bartlett, Tuck, Bradley haven't had to carry that weight around the ground that's why they lasted so long apart from being more than average players) the other side of 27 is downhill for a CHF, ask Dermie.

It's not negative comments re Cloke as such from me, it's more that I don't think it's the best use of cash. Yes you do need to spend $$ to win flags but name the last team to win a flag with one player earning far and above what anyone else in the team were getting. It certainly wasn't Geelong, Collingwood or Hawthorn. The money has been spent on facilities, development, recruiting and the like with the salary cap being well spread among the group.

I just think it tips the scale out of balance, if we are paying a player over odds it effects the team dynamic. Geelong built a team culture and players were payed under their market value to hold that team, no player would have accepted that deal if say Ablett was on a huge contract, that's why Geelong had to let him go. They lost their star and still won another flag. Collingwood have kept their stars on lesser money that's also why they won't pay Cloke what others will offer, it tips the balance. He knows this and it is more likely he is really pushing for the extra year. If he gets 5 he stays at the money offered. I'm for building from within as you state you are and I also like you think if we find a good fit we need to look at the player but not at the risk of the team. Players will be falling out from GC at the end of this year and GWS the next, lets not blow it all on one man. I don't think the money and term that is being quoted for Cloke is worth it. In fact I think it is a beat up to be truthful.