rjay

I don't see it as arrogance but sometimes young players can get a bit too comfortable and forget to do the things that got them the praise. A bit of adulation can subconsciously or in some cases consciously go to their heads. Not a great sample size and he is coming off injury. ...but it's a real trap for young players. I'm definitely not saying he's an arrogant [censored] or anything of the sort.

I'm not sure about him becoming arrogant, that's your interpretation but he could sit back a bit and stop doing the things that make him the player he his. This is all part of armchair analysis and all of us hypothesise to a degree even those at the club on the front line.

I think any young player is in danger of drinking their own bathwater when they get pumped up by the fans and media. As I've said many players suffer a down year early in their careers often called the 2nd year blues (but not always in their 2nd year). I think he's a good kid and has been probably my favourite player since watching his first game with the club but he is only human... At the moment he's not doing the things that make him a good player and that could be for a number of reasons.

Better get your facts right then 'Smokey'... Big difference between what I said and what you quoted.

I hope you don't mean me 'Smokey'? He like many young kids is in danger of it...that's why many get the 2nd year blues. I trust with McCartney around this won't happen.

We received a reality check in last years prelim... How many reality checks do we need? I thought we would win too but looking at it dispassionately the writing was on the wall...we went in with no form. We were kidding ourselves and so were the tipsters. Then add Max's story to the mix then yeah the loss was there to be had.

Interested to know what the overreaction is. The reaction is not just off one game... Coming off the back of a very poor prelim final and no form in the preseason series we got what was probably the expected result on Saturday. If Max did have a general during the week then that tells the tale about his lethargy. Also a bit of how Pruess is thought of by the FD at the moment. I get some players may have been underdone but the one with probably the least time on legs in preseason was Melk and he was one of our best. Oliver's first game at AFL level was a 2 vote Brownlow game, he came into that game as a pudgy kid with a shortened preseason. Based on Saturday's game he needs needs an attitude readjustment following the AA and Gary Lyon pump up. I'm a big fan but he's a kid and in danger of drinking his own bathwater. He was AA last year but personally I thought his previous season was better. His ball handling was not as crisp, I put last year down to the shoulders and maybe the start of this year to not much competitive work in the preseason. Interested to watch the next few weeks...hope he doesn't get the 2nd year blues in his 4th year. May was a big loss, stupid act but on current AFL standards very unlucky to get a week...but they had key players out and blooded 4 kids. I don't think it's an overreaction to ask questions. The writing was on the wall as far as Saturday goes, even more than we originally thought. Is it going forward? Writing us off now would be an overreaction for sure, but unless we fix some area's of our game we're not going anywhere. It could be the season we drop back a bit or we could re load and take all before us.

No 'steve' we've moved that on to the Port game... According to Nathan Jones after last weeks loss "I think that'll burn a lot of players inside but hopefully inspires the reaction our fans will want to see and inspire us to play the way we want to play." Sometimes I really wish our players would just shut up and let their performances do the talking. As you say the intensity and aggression shown in round 1 didn't indicate any residual burn from the prelim, looks like they forget what they were burning about...

From first hand experience it most certainly would have...

I have played a few days after a general & was way off the pace of the game, just couldn't get going at all. If this is right it would have had a big effect on Max's game.

Not a chance 'joeboy'... Frost has been tried there before & failed. ...and you can't leave him forward when Max is in the ruck, again tried and a dismal failure. Frost goes.

Amazing...I can't fathom this new tough stance by the AFL on punches and off the ball incidents. Cunnington hit the jackpot on both and still ended up with a fine. https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-03-25/kanga-free-to-play-after-gut-punch-seven-more-fined-?fbclid=IwAR2cH3EybgtcDZ-fJUr3X2Lf3m_96XXsr-Pp_GBG0tM5qoyiZJh4zMsTMnM

They've got an excuse...a premiership hangover. We've got redemption, what happened?

I don't know what his problem is but for some reason he's been wearing a bandage up around his knee. He was wearing it at the start of the Casey game (so it's not from a corky late in the game) and it's a bit high up for his foot so I'm suggesting something else might be wrong with him. Could it even be a knee problem???

Limping, carrying injury or not. The real Jack Viney would not have put up with Max being pushed around without giving some back. He was very placid on Saturday & had absolutely no impact on the game.

Nice to see so many with their knickers in a knot... Let me simplify things a bit. 2 main points... 1. The writing was on the wall for the result we got yesterday, our form line was poor coming into the game. It was a bitter pill as I don't really rate Port and we should have accounted for them comfortably at home. 2. Is the writing on the wall for the season? Is this the season we take a step back? I gave what I consider to be a number of areas where we need to tidy up. Some we can fix now, but will we and are our short fallings going to hold us back. I don't know the answer to 2 but it's worth asking the questions and not just going into the season blind...like everyone I hope we can win it this year...please... Just a few points... Me too...and we do need him but there are no guarantees he will get back on the track of being the star he looked like being at the start of his career. Toby reminds me of the last small forward we just delisted. Hard at it, good tackle but doesn't get much ball and is not a goal kicker. We were a mile off a GF appearance as the Prelim showed. ...but it didn't stand up in the biggest games of the year. You don't think the Prelim was that...we can't keep waiting for a kick up the ...to get us going. If we do we will always be waiting. True, but the hype is there and I don't think we measure up to it. To be honest I'm not sure any team really does. I mean look at Lloyd's hyping up of the C/wood midfield. What a joke. However so many on here are ready to jump down anyones throat in the media or other posters that don't see everything just great. Of course we did and I'm sure you will agree that's it's still very much a work in progress. That's part the point here. I do think we overpaid for Lever though. That extra first round pick would have been handy. This is so true 'Earl' but there were many times when Frost for example just didn't move to pick up an opponent...he continually found himself in no mans land and some specific times I was watching it was when the ball came in slow. He had time to make position and he just stood and watched. Some of Oscars spooling attempts were incipit, that's what really upset me. He got a fist to the ball but it wouldn't knock...I don't know what off. Certainly it didn't concern the Port player who easily marked.

Not really, where is the over reaction 'steve'??? A lot of it is similar to things you have posted over the last couple of seasons. I've never been a Frost fan, and I've come around to your view on Oscar. ANB couldn't catch a cold or hit the side of a barn with a shot gun and he's probably our best small forward at the moment. All clubs have list problems but some of the media talk saying ours was complete and primed is off the mark I reckon.

It's player based 'Wise'... We have holes in the list we haven't filled. We are in desperate need of a class small forward and we're not sure our tall forwards will fill the bill. As for tall backs. Players, May & Lever replace players Frost and Omac...do you think that makes us better? Or we just keep those 2 and adjust the game plan. No amount of planning can fix substandard footballers. I'm quite calm by the way and I'm looking at a sample of the last 4 games not just yesterday. Yesterday was on the cards and true to our recent form, that's why the writing was on the wall. Unless a few players like Trac, Tmac, Weideman & a couple of others jump up this year then the writing is on the wall. Salem looks like he might which is good, lets hope he finds a few mates. Not saying we won't make it and hope yesterday was a wake up call but that's the 4th wake up call in a row and they're still asleep. Only half joking with that one 'Return'... Tommy is a senior player and he talks a good game. He needs to stop talking, get back to playing a good game and lead from the front. He frustrates me as he talks as much BS as a politician at times.

You're right 'Goody', it's no reason to overreact but that's now 4 poor games in a row. That's a trend. I think we can now put some things into perspective and act to fix what we can. From my post after the JLT games... "A lot of people wanting to put things into perspective from my readings.... ...so here's my perspective. We're not good enough to cruise through preseason games just yet...if these games are meant to tweak the game plan and fine tune for the first game then heaven help us. That was a dogs breakfast. No amount of perspective can change that." In another post earlier in the year I also said that our continued improvement will be harder this year. We've been on a steady upward climb and logic would see us drop off a bit somewhere. Is this the year we drop back a bit? do we miss finals? A bit early to call but on the evidence of the last 4 games we've got work to do. I think our list is overrated by the media and of course us fans...there are holes and I'm sure the FD know this. We lack quality small forwards, Jeffy is the only class one we have and he's super flakey... Spargo is not up to it yet and I don't think he has the tricks to ever be. At his size he needs them big time. ANB can fill a role but at the moment that's what all our small forwards are trying to do...he must hit the scoreboard to hold his place. We had Sparrow in there yesterday for his first game and at least he put some pressure on but he's not a small forward. Hunt's been tried but he's not one either. So our small forwards are about pressure but none bring scoreboard pressure except Jeffy at times. Our defence..Frost, should have been delisted. Omac...the experiment is over. Time to put development into Petty alongside May & Lever. Hibberd hasn't been the player he was in 2017, he's drifting by and not working anywhere near hard enough. We miss Lever big time but I think we overpaid for him, one of those draft kids running around now adding a bit of class could have been handy. Tommy Mac worries me, he's had a good season as a forward but has been very average as of late. History shows he had a really good season and a bit as a defender then dropped off dramatically. Let's hope it's just an aberration and he's up and firing again soon but the trend is remarkably similar. Is Tommy getting ahead of himself or have the opposition worked him? A big call but maybe Tommy could do with some Casey time with his brother. Weid is a kid and he will get a bit more time. Expect him to be up and down but he needs to work harder when down. Trac...undecided on him. I get the feeling he will never be the player we wanted but still be a good player. Just not a great one. It's time to deliver young Trac, no more teasing. The mids are a good group but they are believing their own publicity. Thanks Gary Lyon, we all know Oliver is a star but he doesn't need to drink his own bathwater and he has recently. Time for them to grow up and also time for Max to focus on his game, he's being pushed around too easily. You're a big boy Max and you don't need everyone to like you. Outside run, yeah we all know that. KK may provide some if he gets back to early career form but there's no guarantee there. Being out of the early picks in the last 2 drafts has hurt and we need to pick some more talent. Fritsch is class but is only a fringe player at the moment so he needs to give us more this year. A side note to yesterday...they were up and about. Did anyone notice how many players ran to Sparrow when he kicked his first AFL goal in his first game? not enough for my liking. We weren't up for it. So the question remains...the writing was on the wall for yesterdays game. Is it on the wall going forward? Will we drop off this year?

I would add, we got smashed on the spread. We got drawn into the contest and they had numbers outside waiting for the ball. As an aside, I coming around to your thinking on Oscar. Not sure he's going to make it now. Frost is a definite no for me, May steps in and I think I would look at putting the development time into Petty over Oscar.

This got me...they had a tactic to run into Max at any time, any player around the ground & it worked. Max did nothing, didn't react and played poorly. He can expect to cop it every game he plays unless he can reverse the trend. He doesn't have to play the tough guy & react to every push, shove or bump there & then but it must drive him to perform better. Coaches know the easy targets, Max is one. There are some players you just don't do this kind of thing to as it drives their performance, Max needs to be one of these. ...and while we're on this. Where were Max's teammates? why didn't they start throwing a bit of weight around. Surely we should have been bumping & making life hard for Ryder, he had a broken cheekbone. This was the nice Melbourne playing yesterday & that doesn't win games.

Posted similar, I don't have any intel but if the same injury has flared (and that's what Misson is suggesting) then that's a big problem as they went through a very long thorough rehab to get him back up. Let's hope it is a minor setback as otherwise it could well be career at the crossroads.

If he has the same injury as before then it's doubtful we will see him this year, forget a couple of weeks.

I know we need some pace in the team 'TGR' but Frost isn't the answer. He's fast of foot but slow of brain and got caught out of position or caught running into opponents time and again.

Sorry 'AF', can't agree and the stats show he had zero tackles. He's a liability at the moment because he can't stick a tackle and the opposition know it and use him as a way out. Also they just pop it in the air above his head, he has no aerial ability...