poita

Fantastic player no doubt, but 2012 vintage Martin & 2012 vintage MFC would have been a disaster for all concerned. Neeld probably would have made him captain and trotted him out each week to explain why we had just lost by 100 points again. Moloney & Sylvia would have ensured he turned up to training [censored] every second day. And the supporters would have anointed him as the saviour, then torn him to pieces every time he had less than 40 touches.

Trading Martin to the Lions for next to nothing was close to the worst trade decision I have ever seen from this club (with the clear exception of the Byron Pickett debacle), and there have been plenty of shockers over the past ten years. The fact that Jamar and Spencer were kept makes the decision even worse, irrespective of any personal issues that were in play. That said, I can't see him wanting to come to us, or us wanting him, unless Max decides to further his media career.

I couldn't care less about revenge, but getting a highly visible and marketable round 1 game against Collingwood AND keeping Queens Birthday would be a wonderful result. Let's hope it happens. Of course there was talk this time last year about us playing Essendon in round 1 and we know how that panned out.

You started losing me when you mentioned Kent & Vandenberg as important players, and the use of "highly sensitised reconciliation" in a sentence finished me off.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brayshaw is rested from the finals, but it would be bitterly disappointing if we revert to type and pull anyone else out. In particular I see the next month as a massive opportunity for Stretch & Weideman to really step up and impose themselves at this level. Both should be aiming to be in the round 1 AFL side next year, and a strong finals series plus a big pre season would give them every chance to do so.

16 wins would have had us first on this ladder this season, so it is absolutely ludicrous to have that as the benchmark for next year. 14 wins gets you in the conversation for top 4, and that is what we should be aspiring to. We won 12 this year and let slip opportunities in half a dozen others, so 14 is doable.

There were no expectations on us in our best wins against WC and Adelaide, and Goodwin was able to manufacture a game plan that suited our under strength side on those occasions. Contrast that to the last month or so when we were close to full strength and we reverted to a safe, predictable structure and game plan that was easily pulled apart by opposition coaches. We desperately need the coach to develop plans B, C & D to keep opposition sides guessing, and we need to move on players who perform once a month (Hannan & Harmes are two players who need to reduce the gap between their best and worst football).

Feel so sorry for Nathan Jones. Yes, he was poor on the weekend, but so were most of his mates. I have no doubt that Nathan will be shattered by the performance and the outcome. I'm not sure that I could say the same about some of the others. Totally agree with the above posts regarding Goodwin's absence. He has had a very poor past two months, and I hope he has someone mentoring and reviewing his performance.

It's easy to say trade him, but how does getting a pick in the 30s help us? He's not keeping any gun youngsters out of the team. Replacing him with a Maynard or JKH does not improve the team one iota. We need to improve our midfield depth so that a player like Tyson is either forced to improve his game, or is no longer guaranteed a game each week.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of the following are not at the club next year: Lumumba, Kent, Garland, Vandenberg, Vince, JKH, Hulett, Bugg, Spencer, King, Kennedy, T.Smith, McKenna, White, Wagner. Trengove is another, but at least he tries. Sadly we can't get rid of them all, but hopefully at least half are moved on. We need to seriously prioritise midfielders this year, and stop drafting flankers and utilities.

Definitely need to take midfielder with this pick. One who kicks more than handballs would be a bonus.

With the possible exception of Jetta, all of the top 10 from last year's B&F went backwards this year. Hogan is excused for obvious reasons. I would argue that both Viney & Jones were down before they got injured, and never recovered when they came back. Vince & Kent are both lost causes. Gawn is the big concern - is he a one year wonder who wants to be a personality rather than a footballer, or will he work his butt off to get back to his best? If we can get most of these guys back to their best football, plus continued improvement from the likes of Oliver, Petracca & Hunt, we can move up the ladder. Of course, other teams will improve around us and we will lose players to injury at various stages, so there are no guarantees. That is why this year was such a missed opportunity. We need a couple more quality midfielders. Draft one at pick 10, trade for another, and we'll give ourselves a good chance of fixing this problem. I genuinely hope we clear 7-8 players off the list this year, and give ourselves a chance to find a few hidden gems late in the draft.

I banned myself from posting in this thread for two days to see if my anger and disappointment would subside, but if anything it has increased after WC's win yesterday. The playing group should be utterly ashamed by their efforts and performance on Saturday, and I hope the missed opportunity haunts them all for the rest of their lives. Clearly Goodwin wants to be everybody's mate, but I hope he absolutely tore into them at quarter time and after the game. I thought we collectively looked scared witless on Saturday. The only players who took the game on at any point were Petracca & Hunt, possibly Watts & Melksham as well. The rest couldn't wait to pass the responsibility on to someone else. Our leaders and experienced players were collectively awful, from the captain down. It is truly sad when our best players were all second years. Max Gawn's novelty buffoon act was endearing initially, and tolerable when he was performing well. With his form plummeting he is now just embarrassing himself. Sydney got into his head in round 16, he capitulated on that night and hasn't been the same since. He is clearly unfit and mentally he checked out weeks ago. He needs to decide whether he wants to be a footballer or a clown. He has had one good year in eight, and I will lose all respect if he holds the club to ransom when signing a new contract next year. Tom McDonald is another who pretends to be a leader and senior player but his double act of sooking to umpires and mouthing off at opponents was pathetic. He hasn't had a kick for weeks (at least one that didn't hit an opponent on the chest) and was the single biggest reason why we lost on the weekend. Again he'd better not crap on about making finals and seeing the direction of the club next year, when he is so responsible for our current predicament. Jones, Tyson & Oliver - I see the effort of all three, but just kick the fricking ball occasionally. Oliver is young and will win the B&F by miles but he will be a much more effective player when he kicks 50% of the time. Jones is supposed to be a leader, but he sets the tone for the team by taking the easy option all the time. Tyson has not progressed as a player over the past three years. Harmes, Hannan & Vince - One decent quarter a month and 15 disappearing acts is not nearly enough for Harmes & Hannan. Our ability to replace these two with consistent performers will determine whether we progress next year. Vince has lost the plot this year and should not be given a new contract. The coach - was at his best when he was forced to improvise in the absence of key players. When he reverted to safe mode in the last month or so he was found sadly lacking. He desperately needs a plan B & C, and to be able to get the players switched on from the outset. Unfortunately these shortcomings are what you get when you hire a coach who has never coached at any level - hopefully they come in time. I feel, and have felt for some time, that we are two decent midfielders off being a strong side. Hopefully we can find one with pick 10, and we will probably need to trade for the other. Maybe Salem can be used as trade bait. Our forward and back lines will improve immeasurably when they receive decent support from the midfield.

Any team that is second to the football is going to concede more free kicks than it receives, ie Melbourne yesterday, and especially in the first quarter. Don't blame the umpires for the players poor efforts.

Hence it is utter bulltish for the club to say that it is unrelated to the original foot injury. I know we desperately needed to beat Port Adelaide, but it was inevitable that there would be this sort of consequence from rushing Viney back too early. Now we've most likely lost him for the season. Just plain dumb from all concerned.

For a guy in his sixth season on AFL list, Frost's development has stalled badly this year. He is clearly an excellent athlete, but he is not a natural footballer. Some of his decision making and positioning has been awful this season. I'd like to keep him around, but not on stupid money. I'm not sure what his bargaining position is whilst he is at Casey, so hopefully he comes to his senses and takes the club's offer.

Message to Simon Goodwin: Just pick our best 22 players, regardless of form, and be done with it. The time for experimenting and sending messages is over.

I don't mind Jake, but he is dreaming if he thinks he would be number one ruckman at any other club. He has never played more than 8 AFL games in a season, has never averaged more than 10 possessions, and is seemingly injured every time he is required to step up. I wish him well if he leaves, but chances are that he would still be playing in state leagues more often than not.

I don't mind Jake, but he is dreaming if he thinks he would be number one ruckman at any other club. He has never played more than 8 AFL games in a season, has never averaged more than 10 possessions, and is seemingly injured every time he is required to step up. I wish him well if he leaves, but chances are that he would still be playing in state leagues more often than not.

Depends on whether he was making tackles because (a) he was consistently beaten to the ball, or (b) he was throwing himself around like a man possessed. I didn't see the game, so have no idea which is the case.

Hope the presence of Oscar McDonald in the squad shuts a few people up around here. He is tracking beautifully given his age.

Just wondering if some of you people realise that the season is the same length for all teams. Between the first day and the last day each team plays 22 games. Yes, there are some long breaks and some short breaks in that period, but every team still plays 22 games across 23 weeks. The statistics quoted in the opening post are skewed by the fact we played two Monday games this year. If you don't want the short breaks that come with playing on a Monday, don't put your hand up to play marquee games. Would people prefer we play Saturday afternoon every week with no FTA TV coverage, and no big events? More Friday night games would add to the problem.

Unlike some around here I didn't expect to win in a canter, so I'm not disappointed that we struggled to put Brisbane away for three quarters. But to almost give up a 5 goal lead in the space of 10 minutes against the bottom side was really poor. We can't rely on Richmond and Adelaide doing the right thing by us this week - we have to win, and hopefully we don't let it come down to the last 5 minutes again.. We had maybe 6-8 players who played well all day, another 6-8 who made a contribution in patches, and a bunch who didn't come to play at all. That last group includes T.McDonald, Gawn & Garlett who were miles below their best, and Wagner, Stretch & Hannan who need to be replaced before the finals. There is plenty of room for improvement, but we're leaving it very late. Hopefully we see our best side on the field this week, which includes Watts & Salem, as they are vital for finals.

In: Salem, Watts, Viney (if fit) Out: Wagner, Stretch, Hannan (if Viney fit) Wagner is an utter liability. Stretch continued his woeful form. Hannan maybe next in line, but could be Vince / ANB.

What a miserable person Lumumba must be. He has left two clubs and the game as a whole with no friends and nothing but hard feelings. There is nothing more sad and destructive in this world than people who claim offence on behalf of others. Ultimately he is just an attention seeking egomaniac who suffers from a bad case of relevance deficit disorder.