Demon Dynasty

i50s are obviously critical Paul but you also need to be able to keep it in there as long as possible. We don't get to see the juicy data on pressure acts and tackles in our own forward 50 so we don't have alot to go on here other than the opposition's rebound 50 stat and what we see unfolding in the actual game. One of the key stats we do have to run on though for keeping it there is Marks inside 50 which we aren't doing so well at so far (17th). Given our limited entries i would suggest we def need to improve in this area. That's why i am a much happier chappy when i see Howe running around in our forward 50 arc or thereabouts. I would have him down there every time in place of Dawes/Watts who i believe would both be better playing roles down back, assuming Howe is in the team/fit, and in the case of Dawes, a part time ruck role when the Russian is resting as we saw on Friday night. Marking inside 50 is also a result of how you deliver it there i realise. Plenty of room for improvement in this area for us hopefully

Yeh think we're on the same page. Not saying the sample size is adequate given it's only 4 games. Just putting it out there as an early indicator of "possible" trending vs other teams on certain junk stats. I agree the wet may have played a role and the fact we went missing in last 2.5 quarters against GWS didnt help matters. But you have to also look at what your opponents are doing which may have caused some of our poor play there. And GWS are blitzing on the uncontested stat up till now so... maybe? Dockers are on top of ladder atm as well and also rank highly on effective disposal % / uncontested. Winning spread/run & carry kind of relates to an improved % as you generally have the extra time/space to dispose more effectively (according to the experts on these things). I'm also wondering if some teams like the Dockers/Power/Bombers & GWS have been learning the Hawthorn style and finally starting to catch up with them. Starting to beat them at their own squeeze and stretch style of game if you like. Maybe Roos is running his own "contrarian" style here as well. Asking the boys to play a more direct "risk/reward" style of game through the middle vs last year. This could be placing more pressure on clean disposals as we make our way through a more congested area of the ground, rather than the previous years which were mostly out wide and down the line style of play with alot of sideways/back tracking. If my memory serves me correct we had the worst yardage gained from disposals of any team last year so most of our possessions resulted in us going sideways/backwards. I would like to see how we are fairing in that area this year. Champion data & Clubs have all that juicy stuff of course. Be nice if clubs would share a few snippets now and then.

Just to add some stats ....yeh i know it's often a load of cobblers but i'll throw it into this discussion for fun Demons vs League (averages) A few Key (or Bulldust) stats, however you wish to view them. I've gone from best to worst rank here. Tackle Count - 2nd Contested Possessions - 2nd Contested Marks - 4th Rebound 50 - 5th Clearances - 7th Hit Outs - 8th (to advantage!??) Goals - 14th Effective Disposal %, Marks i50, Inside 50s - 17th* Uncontested Possessions - 18th* *Our biggest concerns for mine, especially effective disposal % which is substantially down. 67.3% (17th) vs 73.8% (4th) last year. Our uncontested ave is the same as last year which indicates other teams have upped the ante on spread/run & carry. 218.5 this year (last so far) v 218.4 in 2014 (11th). Teams who win uncontested have tended to have a positive win/loss ratio in the long haul in the last few years as well as this season. 27 games won up until last week and 18 of those were by teams who won the uncontested count. Hawthorn were No.1 in uncontested as well as No.1 in effective disposal % in 2014. They were also No.3 & No.2 respectively in 2013! The top 5 uncontested teams so far this year... 1. Hawks 2. GWS 3. Bombers 4. Power 5. Dockers

6. Jones boy - best game of "leadership" so far and there's already been many! 5. Garland - 9 tackles, 6 rebound 50s and 4 one percenters! 4. Michie - solid performance and stats given only on for just over half a game! 9 contested, 10 uncontested and 12 effective disposals 3. McDonald - 11 rebound 50s & 7 one percenters! 2. Vince - Most clearances, 6 tackles and a critical goal 1. Vandenberg - needs to clean up disposals but made up for this with great attack on the ball carrier when he didn't have it. Equal highest tackle count on the night at 12 Apologies to Hulk, Howe, Jamar, Newton and Cross

I have yet to see it in a potential crunching one on one 50/50 disputed ball critical "must lay effective tackle" chook. And i have no reason to think he will suddenly miraculously start doing so now. Running past the opponent/contest and sticking one hand out flicking that opponent around the neck (who has gone in hard and gotten the disputed ball you could have also have gone for) when you could have gone in hard with shoulder/body down low (either for the ball or the tackle if you aren't quite at the contest) is a lame excuse for committment. He does it time and time again and quite often gives away a free kick with his soft coat hanger "attempts" at a tackle. He did so in front of the tigers goal last nite at the city end which cost us a free about 20 metres out. Not sure if they goaled. And the stakes should be high enough every week surely!?? I remember the teeth nashing and hand wringing that went on after the Flash squibbed just 1 contest at Shityhed a few years ago in a critical moment against the Saints. IMO that was a game turner in a match we could have won early in the season against a pretty poor opponent. We were well in the match up until then. I believe Flash was played the week after but the ridicule Flash copped just for 1 squib was enormous. I don't think he was ever the same player after that incident. Watts is doing this on a regular basis yet people are saying "ease off on him/cut him some slack" etc. If he had performed anywhere near the level of Flash to this point i would probably be more forgiving. But he hasn't...and still isn't. He's just a very ordinary player so far who is massively down on confidence/courage and even his occasional silky skills are letting him down a little more so than usual when he is running in the clear. Given his lack of output and impact on game day i seriously don't think he would be missed at all if he was demoted so i'm not sure why doing so is such a "BIG" issue for some to digest. The Hawthorn mantra is if you lose a soldier you replace him with another. This soldier's been AWOL for quite a while yet his body is still running around out there. No way the Hawks would keep playing him in the seniors. He would have to go back and learn "the Hawthorn way" and earn his spot back in the team. No we aren't Hawthorn but we sure aint going to get anywhere near the likes of them without toughening up right across all lines and committing to a number of team "non negotiables".

Dawes did an excellent job in the ruck jnr. Not sure if the conditions helped him here but i thought he gave Jamar a great chop out

Agreed, I think that would rank right up there as some of the most blatantly biased i've seen in 45 years of watching Dr.

Roos wouldn't be reading this rubbish mate. It's just a personal view/hope in that he acts sooner rather than later. (feel free to roll out predictable one liner...."thank god he doesn't...you have no idea!" etc etc ). Yes, he could be correct in keeping him and i might end up with egg on my face but Watts has had umptine chances to prove he has what it takes at AFL level (mentally/physically). To this point he has failed...and miserably so. I grimace everytime he gets near it and there are (and have been) very few players i would say that about (Morton is another that comes to mind) as i just don't know what sort of contest/committment we're going to see, if any. It's a combative game and yes there's always going to a be many more contests in congestion with the nature of 120+ interchanges now. That's the way the AFL has designed the game like it or not. But regardless it's always been a physical game even for outside runners and skinny guys. Some lessor built guys will make it at this level (eg., Flower, Laidley etc) if they're willing to commit when it's their time to go, others wont. As i have said and hoped all along, i really hope he finds this side of his game and ends up being a solid to great player for us...but it's been 6 pre-seasons and he is into his 7th on the field and it's still not happening. You can run but you can't hide on an AFL field. Better if he trys to find it at VFL level IMO. You can't play the loose man down back forever and that is what has happened here. Roos has asked something else of him and he hasn't been up to it till now. And while most of the other boys are lifting their game physically, Watts hasn't been able to go with them. In any team's progress there are likely to be casualties along the way robbie and some collateral damage. You can try and bring everyone along with you but some just wont make it. It's the nature of any professional "team" sport where the team is on the up and up from a low ebb. Seeing is believing Robbie but i have severe doubts at this point.

Probably the same muppets defending Watts. Kent, Vandenberg, Brayshaw, TMac, Salem, Hulk, Viney (when fit and in) led admirably by the Jones Boy. All starting to become consistant contributors and never shirking a contest (*referring to the newer boys not the Captain). Most in the team are taking their game to a new level physically this year. Roos needs to make a hard call on Watts, and quickly, as he just isn't going with them here and becoming a substantial liability. We are effectively one man down in a physical contest sense when he is in the team. Pedo is an instant in for Watts IMO. Not the greatest footballer but at least you know you will get a contest and no squibbing. I like Watts as a person, top genuine bloke off the field, and a highly skillfull ball user on the field, when he does get it. But mentally he has now proven many times he isn't up to the physicalities of this sport. It's time to give others a chance at proving they have what it takes at this level.

There were many horror decisions made by the same ump right throughout the game, He was either under instruction, had a huge bet on the Toiges or just a complete ignoramis. Either way the entire game was poorly umpired, especially that 3rd quarter. Makes our win even better when you consider we only had 17 men on the field vs 19 for them. Great win led by our superstar "leader" who was inspirational (just needs to roll out of traffic on his right foot whenever possible! That left foot ughh )

We might go close on Friday as the toiges have always had issues playing us at the G even when we're underdogs. But i would savour the win if it comes as i can't see us going beyond bottom four. And if you think we will leap frog out of the bottom 4, then yes i think you just might be joining this bloke P! ....

Whilst i think the 2 teams in the GF is a great idea Soi, this is just how the AFL like it. 2 out of their top 3 Vic clubs playing off in their (the AFL's) biggest block buster of the year outside of the GF. And one of them it saved from oblivion this year. What a celebration this will be for those in the AFL's elite inner circle. Essendrug are back, the ANZAC day block buster goes on! How chuffed those in the AFL inner circle and hierarchy must be right now... long live HIrd and his bongers! Both the day and Essendrug are and will be untouchable for as long as the present AFL structure and hierarchy remain in place. I blame this on the weakness of the remaining Vic clubs and their CEOs/board. None have the balls to speak up against such a rediculous duopoly on such an important occasion, including the MFC. Not that we are in a position of strength to lead the charge i realise. But until or unless the other Vic clubs start to make a song and dance about missing out i wouldn't waste my breath Soi. It's set in stone mate.

That was in response to someone quoting a few selective stats in support of his performance yesterday RP. I don't think that's high at all for a first round pick in his 7th season. It's almost bottom quartile stuff. He is a nice kid in a very tough game who's never grown up i feel. As for the others we have prospective prospects and that's about it for now. There's no signs of a dominant player with the exception of Hulk on the horizon although Vandenberg/Brayshaw/Vince/Newton/Tyson seem to be pushing up a little. It's early days but i fear we are STILL dead cat bouncing with no real prospect of being a truly competitive unit at AFL level. If we had a stream of young budding talent pushing up from Casey i would probably be more optimistic. But other than stretch it would seem there's very few pickings. No decent ruckman coming through either. We've seen Fitz, Gawn and Spencil rotated through the roster over the last few years and none appear to offer a solid replacement for Russian when he retires shortly. This is not really a surprise though as many of these outcomes are a product of the AFL's big picture agenda where they want the brand to always grow into new markets as well as fostering, supporting and bolstering the the big 3 in Vic (Hawks, Pies, Bombers) through free agency and also allowing the bleed of younger talent to the interstates and start ups. If you asked them (off the record) they would be pretty happy with where we are at i think. I have very little interest in the game anymore to be quite honest RP as i think the likelihood of the lower Vic clubs ever having any real success is pretty much zero under the current AFL regime. Mind you we haven't exactly helped our cause in the last few decades either.

So what you're basically saying is we have pretty much no options coming through from Casey DoF other than Stretch maybe and he is a season or so away? Sounds like we've already reached our limits in terms of what we will get out of the current list this season. Gawn takes a few grabs but it appears he can't hit the side of a barn door when shooting for goal.

Cross was ranked No.1 on stats yesterday and is ranked No.1 in the team averages for the year so far. He gets involved and i dissagree on the creativity, at least by hand. Maybe by foot he isn't as skilled or creative. But by hand he makes lessor or more junior players look good, setting up many plays and giving off critical handballs to players who are loose or on the run to "create" play and score (sometimes lol).

Ranked 14th out of the 22 yesterday in key stat rankings.

Correct moon. Jako's don't grow on trees though i'm afraid. Kent has a long way to go and will need to work hard if he is to become a solid contributor in the long haul. A long way from having a regular impact at this level right now.

This is what the club's been lacking since the Northey years. Bring on more of the fight both for the ball and defending the club and fellow players in a mellee. Anyone calling for Kent's head after today needs a brain transplant. Haven't seen a Demon player ragdoll anyone since Jakovich

Matt Jones > Jetta - Looked lost down back today... more work needed at VFL level. Jones isn't the greatest player of all time but at least he runs lines out of half back and makes his opponent work hard going the other way. Jetta rarely does this. Jones would need to clean up his disposal skills and choices coming off HB though as he was pretty horrid last year and will often undo his good work with some pretty bad clangers in mid field. I would rank Jones a fair margin above Jetta at this stage of their carreers in a team ranking sense. Michie > JKH - doesn't look ready for rigours of AFL right now week in and week out. Would only play him within a 40 meter arc of goal at this early stage of his career hovering around HULK in small stints for 10 minutes here and there IF he is in. Lost anywhere else. Loves to kick goals and knows where the goals are unlike most of our other forwards atm and worth persevering with in this role. However, at this stage of their careers i would also rank Michie well ahead of JKH in a total match (output) team ranking. Perderson > Watts - [Pedersen] for all day gut running/effort/attack on the ball/ball carrier and occasional overhead mark. Can kick occasional goal but not the most gifted player in general play. Watts the opposite of all this and probably about the same output on the scoreboard if Pedo played up forward. Pedo will at least bring more balls to the ground in a contest as well which might give our smalls a few more opportunites to goal. I don't expect Pedo will give all that much more in a scoreboard sense than Watts but at least he wont do as many of the moral sapping things that we see Watts do a little too often. I would only play Dawes through HB and Ruck (when resting the Russian). Useless up forward and will only get in the road of the Hulk's development. Replace with Howe for the X factor and ability to take an overhead keping the ball in OUR forward line for longer periods of time easing the pressure off our D a little.

Agreed, we have no clear winner through the middle nor anyone capable of using the ball cleanly enough or often enough to finish the good work coming off half back and away from the contests/congestion. We are still 2 dangerous mid fielders away from making everyone look good around them, including Hulk & the scoreboard (this includes mid fielders kicking regular goals as well). If we don't fix this nothing will change (ie., winning regular games) and we will forever be lamenting loss after loss after loss.

Best idea ive heard for sometime Gorg. If you cant finish when getting these opportunities you have no chance of winning. Roos & Co. back off the BS recovery/beach sessions and teach these boys how to kick for goal FFS!

He rarely clunks a mark tyson. Only option is half back and taking on the ruck role when Jamar is resting. That way he rarely has to worry about marking but can use his strength and body to work opponent under/off the ball ...like Tex in this match.

Rain rain and more rain please! Crows worst enemy at this point as it levels out the kicking skills a little

jane i would give us no chance if is wasn't raining and it would be more like how far the crows (eg., 50 plus)

HULK breaks the drought!!