Jaded No More

He already is the only ruck. Martin can take the ruck duties in the back/forward line (depending which end he plays), and if Jamar really needs a rest Martin can take a couple of the center bounces (although I hate that idea knowing that Martin is not a trained ruckman and is risking injury). At the end of the day, we can win or lose as many ruck contests, but it means nothing if our mids can't get their hands on the ball, and our second ruck is consistently turning the ball over.

Just thought I'd break up all the negativity and hair pulling and wrist slitting with a picture I took outside the G today. For those who don't know, our players have a punishment system for players who are late to training (maybe for other misdemeanors as well?). The player in question roles a dice and each number equates to a different punishment (shave your head is one, walking around with a talking Barbie doll for a week is another etc..). One of the best punishments however, happens to be having to drive a shitbox of a car for a whole week. And this is it... Apparently Miller did the artwork.

Or you can look at it and say that in the next 1-3 years we will lose all of these senior players, and yet none will be a loss to us. Most teams struggle when they lose their most senior players, but not us. We can start planning for a future without our 5 oldest players and not have to worry about how we'll manage without them, because in reality none occupy key positions, none play key roles, and none are influential enough to win us games (with apologies to Greeny, who still has a while left in him anyway).

Now now, we all knew this was coming. No need to get angry. Anyone who needs to see the game stats of other first timers to prove to themselves that Watts' debut was perfectly acceptable, is hardly worth arguing with. Today was about Watts getting a taste, and he sure got one. Despite being under enormous pressure, his disposal and decision making was composed (a couple of very smart handballs), but spending large amounts of time in a dead forwardline obviously didn't help his stat count. Also agreed that he was exhausted in the second half, and it's no wonder. No pre-season, heavy conditions and never having played at this level. To expect anything more than what we got today is unrealistic. Would have been great if that ball bounced through for a goal instead of a point, but that's life. It's not what you do in your first game that counts, it's what you can take from your last game that matters.

Agreed. And since returning, Jamar has shown clear signs of improvement. He is winning the taps (needs to work on winning them to advantage now) comfortably, taking contested marks, blocking and helping the guys in the clearances. He is doing everything right for a big guy, everything I would hope to get out of a ruckman acually. What we need now is to find him a backup because Paul Johnson is a costly player. Not only do we lose the ruck contest when he's rucking, but he turns the ball over time and time again, he can't handball, makes shocking decisions, and costs us goals (2 at least today, maybe more).

Oh my god, now I have truly heard it all!

Out: PJ, Whelan In: Martin, Miller

Absolutely. Every senior player out there was well below capacity and that is ultimately what really hurt us. To blame players with 1,5,10,20,30 game experience for what happened today is unfair. No doubt they are part of the team and they contribute to the loss, but they need to have the support of the senior players around them.

Who would you have appointed?

It's as if everytime we have a terrible game, people come on here and just let their brains explode all over the place. I suggest everyone goes and has a lie down and a stiff drink before starting new threads... particularly ones that suggest Bailey is no good, Jamar should be offloaded, Watts is crap and McLean is a pea heart.

:rolleyes: Dean Bailey sucks, we shouldn't have drafted Watts, we are never going to get off the bottom of the ladder, and we should merge with North Melbourne. Anymore?

Criticize his game all you like, but if anyone feels the need to call him lazy and a pea heart, they do not deserve a response, because that statement is both offensive and so so so wrong.

I actually think we made a few mistakes at the selection table this week (not that those mistakes cost us the game, but nevertheless). I know Miller was out of form, but we missed him today and again had no solid target to kick to. Martin should have played instead of PJ (Jamar is the only one who can ruck anyways, and at least Martin can defend and won't turn the ball over consistently), and perhaps Bennell should have played ahead of Whelan. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Terrific game from him, and the sort of display we have all be waiting for. The key is for him to just keep going and find that consistency. I sincerely hope that he has finally turned the corner, because we sure can use his talent!

There was nothing embarrassing about Watts or his debut. To begin with there was little chance that he'd have a stunning debut, add to that a completely pathetic display from the other 21 guys around him, and heavy rain, and what exactly did people expect? When he did get the ball, he showed just how smart he is, and used it well. He made it through a game, went from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows, and he is a lot better for the experience. The only embarrassing thing about this week was the display we put on today. The Jack Watts hype was largely media driven, and his game was what I would expect from a kid coming into a team that is getting thrashed.

Hard to judge who plays on who half the time. I only saw him on Didak once or twice, but you might be right. Still, I think that as a future midfielder, he is doing a terrific job playing on dangerous small forwards. He wasn't disgraced and fought admirably. His decision making and disposal is top notch, and his courage is exemplary. Definitely would put him in the top half a dozen best players for us today (there weren't many!).

Joeboy seems to hate Grimesy! He was terrific again today. Seriously what more can you expect from a 5th gamer, than to beat his opponent, give us good drive out of the backline and put his body on the line? Terrific. Thought McLean and Jones were a bit sloppy with their disposal in the wet, but both fought hard and won a fair bit of the ball in close. Jamar and Sylvia the two really big standouts though.

Please add Jack Grimes to that too. The kid is a gem! Oh and Watts didn't get injured, and we made a profit. ... and we're one game closer to picks 1 & 2

I haven't been this disappointed with our players since Round 22 last year. The effort today, particularly in the first and third quarters was unacceptable. Biggest letdowns were, as per usual, senior players. Whelan far too lose, Bruce making terrible decisions, Green did little of note, Junior can hardly get a touch these days, Robbo (despite some good defensive work) is screwing up easy shots at goal and playing for frees too much. Then you go to the next level and I thought Moloney was disappointing today, and let's not even get started on Paul "I love to give the ball to the opposition" Johnson!!! It's disappointing that on a big day, in front of a big crowd, we couldn't put in a better performance. The four points are irrelevant, but effort is what counts and today was unacceptably poor both in terms of effort and skills. Very very bad day. (Poor Jack Watts, what a [censored] introduction to AFL!)

Whether he is targeted physically, whether he starts on the bench, or whether he gets a touch, good luck to him! I hope he doesn't worry about the outcome tomorrow, and just goes out and enjoys every minute of it, because you only get to have your first goal/kick/mark/team run-through/win once. No matter how he performs, tomorrow is just one step in what is going to be a great and long career for him and hype aside, I think as supporters we know that his performance against the Pies will be completely irrelevant to his long term future. Having said that, I hope he kicks 10 and I get two weeks of blissful bragging rights about the best player to ever play the game

Hahaha, take it easy! You can have a great involvement in AFL, and be a terrible commentator (hello to just about everyone working at MMM). I have never commented on his involvement or indeed the impact he made to football at VFL level, I was just noting that he is a very very bad commentator IMO. His voice is grating, his comments are boring and his jokes are just lame. His interviewing techniques aren't much better. Would I do a better job? probably not. That's why I'm not in the media :D

Valenti wasn't returning from injury. There are always exceptions, but in general Bailey will play everyone for at least two weeks in a row, particularly if, like Bell, they are being tried in a new position. Bell showed promise as a midfielder in the pre-season, but missed 6 weeks with a broken thumb. To dump him after one game where he really wasn't too bad, is not going to tell us anything about his future and whether or not he can make it as a midfielder. We know Valenti, we know what we can do, where he fits into the list and what we'll get from him (give or take improvement/experience). Bailey doesn't know nearly as much about Bell, and he's been on our list a lot longer. Time to give him a run once and for all and see whether he can deliver the goods in the middle. Otherwise, he'll get cut (no room for him in the backline anymore).

From weather.com.au: No rain at all in the afternoon, and only 1mm of rain in the morning/evening, so TURN UP! http://www.weather.com.au/vic/melbourne/detailed

He got it because Phil Cleary was just dying to confirm that he is indeed turning 26 next month <_< Seriously, how can this man get a gig on TV? Not only is his voice annoying, but he is a complete moron. I would have given Dunn the BOG award, or McKenzie. Both had the most consistent influence on the game, and were the catalysts in the last quarter when they won a lot of the ball at ground level.

And if both Watts and Jurrah come on the way we expect, you would always leave one deep in attack if you choose to push the other further up field. Often Franklin might play up the ground if Roughead is having a really good patch, and Hawthorn might choose to clear the forwardline and make him the sole focus. They can only do that because Franklin is capable of pushing up, making them a hell of a lot more versatile and one of, if not the best forward line due in the competition. Same goes for Riewoldt/Kosi and Brown/Bradshaw (Bradshaw often plays down back, like last night, and we can have that flexibility with Martin too). The point is, that while I've loaded the forwardline with talls, they are flexible enough to give us enough options both in the air and at ground level. In fact, that forwardline is pretty similar to the Hawthorn structure. Roughead as a stay at home big forward (Martin- obviously not anywhere in the same league... yet ), Buddy as a roaming CHF (Watts), Williams who can play small or tall (Jurrah) and Moss (Aussie). Now they have Rioli as well except he pushes up into the midfield, and is not so much a stay at home crumber (far too good to waste in that position), which is something we can get from Sylvia/Maric on a rotational basis and obviously Davey as well. I included both Bate and Miller, because in 2-3 years time Watts and Jurrah won't be good enough to command the forwardline on their own, and will need the bulk and strength of the other two. But longer down the track we will most likely replace one or both with smaller forward flankers who might rotate between HFF and midfield amongst themselves (so Sylvia plays a quarter in the middle, then a quarter up forward, then Maric does the same, then Davey, and perhaps even Aussie if he develops his fitness). Bailey has spoken a lot about getting versatility out of our players, particularly out of our KPP, so it wouldn't surprise me if when Garland returns, we see him thrown up forward as well, possibly switching with Martin every once in a while. If there is something I don't want to do again, is become a one-dimensional, predictable side, like we often were under Daniher. We would be dominating for 10 weeks, and other teams would figure us out and shut down our game plan. And we, having little scope to move our players around, got beaten in consecutive weeks. The other alternative which I left out all together, is one where Morton (with an added 30kgs) takes the CHF position, with Watts at FF (again having added a lot of bulk), and Jurrah as a third tall. We've got options, we just need to use them wisely and be patient, because all of our potential KP forwards at the moment are way undersized (strength wise).