Jaded No More

Best trading move this club has made. Ever! TJ continues to under-perform and Grimes will be a star. In fact, for now we are the big big winners of that deal since Cameron Wood has done little to enthuse. I thank our lucky stars that injury pushed Grimes back in the draft order and he landed in our laps.

Will somebody please think of the children Scully! :angry:

I don't know whether or not he is having trouble with his ankle, I do know that he has had limited pre-season and that up until this year he has always been a very good user of the ball. Players don't lose those sorts of skills over the course of a summer. It is possible that some weeks he is less sore, and some weeks he really feels it. It is also possible that given how much pressure our midfield is under each week, that when not given time and space, he cannot get proper penetration in his kicking. Yes, because we know that over his career he has never stood up against any good side He was our second highest possession winner against Geelong this year, and third highest possession winner against the Saints. So yes, you are right, he only performs against weak sides. Silly me. He has also been a major contributor in every victory we have had over the last 3 seasons. There is a big difference between being a good ordinary footballer, and not being able to carry a midfield on your own. Name a single player who can successfully dominate each and every week in the midfield, when surrounded by rubbish? Of course he won't always be playing under a winning ruck, but when the outside midfield improves, and we start to apply the sort of pressure we applied on Satuday every week, he will have more space and more time. In a good side, he is a very good player who is invaluable to our ability to get first hands on the ball. In a poor side, he does what he can by winning clearances and being on the bottom of every pack, but his ability to play the outside game is deminished by a lack of quality around him. In an ideal world he will be a purely inside midfielder. Currently he is forced to play both, with little support. Wow, so now a top 5 finish is not good enough, given a limited pre-season and given Davey and Sylvia are having their best season ever? That's just ridiculous. He is 23 FFS, and is our main ball winner each week. Consistent high finishes in the B&F is a very good indication that you are a good player, even if you are playing in a crap team.

Let's not get carried away. Both Blease and Garland will start running soon and are on track for a full recovery. Maric and Strauss were pushed into surgery early to fix up the shoulder and get them right for next year. Maric played on with a sore shoulder, as did Strauss (he didn't even look injured, so maybe he did it at training?), so clearly the injury wasn't career threatening. Our [censored] luck with injuries continues, but let's not slit our wrists just yet. The only injury that could be career ending is Garland's, but we discovered it early and have taken every precaution, so he should be right to go next year. If ever there is a time to get injured, this year is it.

I don't really disagree with any of that, except I don't agree with the notion that he is selfish. I know he comes across that way on the field, and as though he is playing to boost his own highlight reel, but believe me when I say that he really loves this club and he hates losing. He has always played in a flamboyant sort of way, and many people forget that essentially he is a goal sneak, a forward pocket. He is not a KP forward. His bread and butter should be the miracle goals, not taking contested marks in the goal square or being used as a leading target. So in that respect, he has done extremely well. Still, you are right about his defensive pressure and Bailey has made him pay for it by dropping him. It is a big slap in the face to be dropped as a senior player when your team is going to win the spoon. Since returning he has been better (I wish some would recognise that!), but still has deficiencies he needs to work on in that regard. If he wants to keep playing beyond this year, he has to get better with his 2nd and 3rd efforts, it's simple. Because in all other areas, he is still a very good contributor. He has lost none of his leap and can still take contested marks and kick big goals, so from that prespective he is definitely good enough to play beyond this year. As for playing Miller or Martin at FF, it might work in the physical sense but neither Miller nor Martin will command the same respect that Robbo does at FF. By not being able to easily zone off him when the ball comes into our forwardline, it gives us a lot more one-on-one marking opportunities, which we lacked desperately at the start of the year when Robbo wasn't there. It's like saying drop Fevola, because he is a tool, and play Fisher at FF. Both can take a mark and kick goals, but the difference in their presence is massive. Even when Neita wasn't kicking goals, he was invaluable in helping us kick them through other avenues. Miller, love him as I do, has shown he is a much better player when playing wide and pushing up the ground. And Martin, in his third or fourth go as a forward is not good enough to command that respect yet. I'm worried that if he doesn't play, we'll revert back to bombing long to a two-on-one contest, which is a terrible habit to get into.

Yes, they have both had shoulder reconstructions this week and will be right to start pre-season after Christmas A real shame, but this is a good time to start sending players off to get fixed.

I understand your logic, but the problem is that without Robbo there, you are leaving Watts and Jurrah to play on guys like Darren Glass. Robbo provides a distraction for the other younger players in the team, and allows them to play with less pressure, as he is still our number one target. For example, there is no way I want Jurrah or Watts to play on Scarlett in a few weeks time. Robbo being there at least means an even contest.

When have I ever disagreed with that? Robbo needs to do more, just as he needs to be acknowledged for his current efforts and the fact that his game on Saturday was a big reason we won, just as it has been for many years. No, I'm judging him over his career. You say you judge him over a 3 year period, in which he came second in our B&F off half a season, and was consistently dominant. He is unfit, and that has been made public by CC numerous times. He spent parts of pre-season recovering from surgery, and did no speed training. Of course when he runs out there he is 100% accountable, and he has never ever not put in the effort. That is what being accountable means. It doesn't mean you do what is physically impossible. If he physically cannot run or is struggling to kick because of his ankle, well there is little he can do to fix that right now (unless we choose to rest him). But he'll still run all day long and he'll still be on the bottom of every pack and he'll still get you 7 clearances. But you refuse to mention that, you just look at him and say he's too slow and can't kick. Well he definitely could kick yesterday, when he wasn't the lone hand in the middle, and had time and support around him, which is what he'll hopefully have in the future. He can't do it alone, but what a difference a winning ruckman and a good physical display from the rest of the team makes. It gave Brock a lot more space to work with, and some of his kicks were at their brilliant best. But when he is doing it on his own, with little space to work with and we don't apply the pressure on the opposition, Brock has much less time to dispose of the ball and cannot rely on his pace to burn off an opponent, particularly given his lack of pre-season. As I've said time and time again, get him some support and he'll show you his worth, just as he did yesterday, and in 2008 and when he won us a final in 2006. Last week he was terrible, no doubt, and the vultures were out in force. It's good to know that our FD is less short-sighted and judges players on more than a few poor showings. I wonder what you'll say when he once again gets a top 5 finish in the B&F.

Can he take all of his shots on the run from 65m out? I'll never understand how he nails those, but misses from 20m out on a slight angle, given he is generally a very good kick. Although it's not as weird as Stefan Martin nailing snaps across his body from the boundary, but not being able to kick from right in front. By the way, I'm thinking Jamar might be our man. His snap was inspirational!

Port can still make the 8, we can still get Scully. I know which team I'm backing to win. Hopefully Sylvia and Davey get suspended (never thought I'd say that!), Watts is back in the side for some much needed experience, and we go down by 2-3 goals. Just as long as we keep up the tackling and intensity, because that was brilliant to watch.

Absolutely correct. He is a bit of an enigma. He does a lot of stupid things that come across as selfish, but he has been a brilliant player over the years and has pulled our sorry arses over the line more times than I can remember. In terrible years, with no support, he was our leading goal kicker, and in good years, he stood up (particularly in finals) to deliver some devastating blows to the opposition. For a small guy, with average pace, he has an amazing leap and is one of the best overhead marks going around. He is also one of the very very few players in the team that you can count on to do something special and lift when required. Yes it is infuriating when he goes to ground, pretends he has been shot and refuses to chase, but FMD go find another player on our list who right now can contribute 4 goals while taking away the opposition's best defender (who is generally much bigger than him). He also regularly enjoys ripping Scarlett a new one, which is a joy to watch

I watched the replay last night, and in many of those contests it was Lynch doing the rucking and Warnock was trying to stop his opponent (in this case Naitanui), from being the third man up. This sort of thing happens thousands of times over any given weekend, both in centre bounces and ball ups. He wasn't scragging him behind play, pulling his arm down or pushing him out. Most times, he rested his forearm against his side, just to let him know "I'm here, so don't try anything". There was little wrong with it, and it has nothing to do with Naitanui, who let's face it, even when not impended, barely managed to contest the ruck even at centre bounces. Malcolm Blight, while talking [censored] for most of the game, was correct when he said that Naitanui was used to being the biggest and tallest guy on the ground, but that he is now playing AFL and it's time to start jumping and getting physical. He will no doubt learn to do that with time.

Rubbish. I said that he needs to do more than he currently does, and I was happy for him to be dropped for a lack of second efforts. To not acknowledge that he is improving in that area, just goes to show that when you pick a player you don't like, you just run with the same wave of thoughts regardless of whether the position changes. Go watch the replay, and we can discuss how many times Robbo did the right thing with the 2nd effort, and how many times he didn't. He cost us a goal by staying down too long, which was terrible and he has got to stop the acting up, but he also did plenty of chasing. Can we assume that Brock hasn't all of a sudden become too slow and too poor a kick/decision maker to be a good player? There are plenty of evidence to support my argument that Brock is unfit and hasn't done a pre-season. He had a shocking game last week, which I acknowledged and would have been fine if a decision to drop him was made, but thankfully we didn't. By the way, did you know that he copped a corked thigh during the game, yet still fought it out to be one of our best? Brock has shown more often than not that he is a great player, who leaves nothing on that field. Your continual bashing of him is just so ridiculous and based on your poor long-term memory. Stop judging players on one game, or one single effort. By doing that, you are pretty much in the same boat as people who write off first year players after 3 games!

McDonald is the 5th spot. Captains always go.

You reckon it's because it was Naitanui, or because Warnock's job is to keep his man (who at the time was Naitanui) out of the contest? Either way, it was good play and Naitanui should get used to it. He is stronger than Warnock anyways, or at least equal in strength. Could have fought harder to push him off, and didn't. Welcome to the big league. Watts will receive the same treatment, and needs to learn to cope as well.

And he says I play favourites... At least I acknowledge Robbo's downfalls, all you do Rhino is find every negative under the sun and go on attacking those you don't like. Will you at least acknowledge Robbo's brave dive on the ball, just as I've said that he needs to get better with his second efforts and stop the acting up? Good to see you give some support to Brock this week though... back on the bandwagon are we?

Well he is a dud and a waste of a first pick. Though at least he can bounce a football

He was an older selection, thus we picked him up in the PSD. He was a basketballer who converted to footy very late. Before playing his first AFL game, he played something like 10 games in the VFL (then Sandy) as a defender. So while he isn't technically young, he is extremely inexperienced. In fact, he would be as experienced as someone like Jack Watts, given he made a later conversation to footy than Watts, who played both footy and basketball growing up. Martin really is a remarkable player and his ability to learn and adapt so quickly is amazing. Hopefully that ability will transfer to his kicking. (I was very pleased to see him convert his second attempt at goal!)

Ummm JACK WATTS!

Dan I'm not gonna keep going around in circles. I've given you all the evidence I have to support my argument. All you've done is tell me that PJ gets a lot of hitouts sometimes but is not a big physical ruck presence. Wow, I'm impressed. That you are pretty much writing Jamar's influence on Saturday off, by telling me that West Coast's midfield was poor and Brock had a great game, just goes to show that you really are not prepared to accept any argument against PJ. For what it's worth, I'm sure most people would agree that Jamar has been much better this year than PJ. And the fact remains that PJ is not good enough to be first ruck, and is not effective enough as a KPP to be a secondary ruckman. If Martin can learn to pinch-hit in the ruck, and there is no reason why he couldn't, than he is exactly the sort of secondary ruckman that you want in your team, because he can play another position effectively. PJ cannot.

[censored] news about Maric and Strauss, but at least this way they'll be right for a big pre-season, along with Blease and Garland!

<_< Jack Grimes prefers women

On my DVD recorder Foxtel will have a replay of the game sometime during the week, if you've got it.

Have you seen Naitanui? He is 100 kgs already, and just about the tallest player on the ground every week. He would eat Watts for breakfast.

Anyone who judges ruckman on their around-the-ground stat count first, doesn't understand the primary and crucial role of a ruckman. Jamar's 7 disposals and countless of hitouts to advantage, were instrumental yesterday. We scored 7.4 directly from hitouts, so in my book, Jamar had a hand in setting up 12 scoring shots. That is the true value of a ruckman, not running around picking up 20 possessions in the back pocket, most of which are poorly disposed of. Jamar averages twice as many hitouts as PJ per game this year. Averages nearly twice as many tackles per game, and only 4 less disposals per game. And that's off 3 games versus 13. PJ has a LOT of ground to make up before he is anywhere near as effective or influential as Jamar has been this year. Learning to ruck effectively and using his physicality might also help. There is no way he could have done to Naitanui what Jamar did, and with ruckmen getting bigger and taller, that is a very important aspect of the game.