Pates

Joel I can see a place for as depth, Dunn potentially the same but I just think there comes a time when we have to say goodbye to him. He's shown bits and pieces in his career, I thought he would make it as a defensive forward, but has lacked in consistency for too long. Joel can do some good things and some atrocious things. He's actually quite good at taking defensive marks, and has good endeavor, but some of his decision making and skills (or lack there of) has cost us goals. Both not the first I would cull, but are in the mix.

Don't go too well Jack, we still want to take you with a 2nd rounder!

It should pointed out that when we recruited him (from what I have read) the community was quite harmonious, although very much from a different world. The fractures are something that have come about only recently while he's been away and as a leader he has be caught smack bang in the middle of it. Further, I think recruiting players from these trouble spots are more important than ever with what's going, the young male generation need to see that there is potential for them outside of the feuds and such (this is speaking fairly uneducated). I would hope that the club continues to look for left feild recruites and if they come from remote indigenous communities I say go for it. Channel 9 basically ran the story as if it was the end of his playing career, I really hope that's not the case. Glad to here the MFC sticking by him.

I still maintain a little hope of us putting him on a rookie list contract but I just don't know if it's going to happen.

Everything I've heard about him is that he was great clubman while at Melbourne, I had high hopes for him early on in his time at Melbourne and although he never reached the hights I wished for he had some great moments with us. Would like him to come back to the club at some stage.

Really not in the position to make a call, but all I'll say is if there is better out there then we should go for it. He is somewhat of a symbol of the previous coaching panel. In some ways until we have severed ties entirely with of the old group it's difficult not to feel it's still there.

I got to be honest I'm not keen on us going for Cloke on the $$$$ that he (or more specifically his father) wants. Don't get me wrong if we land him I will be proud of the club for landing him, but I don't know that getting a key forward such as him shoud be our main priority. I reckon he will go to Carlton, right fit, right money.

I'd be very surprised if we moved him on, the only scenario I can see is him leaving us. But to answer your question no I don't think it spells the end for Rivers. I thought he was playing some of his best career football earlier in the year, and when we lost all our forwards his move forward diminished his confidence (after he kicked four against GWS). For me Garland has shown a fair bit as a forward, his movement seems natural, he's a good mark (something we've always known), he just needs to work on his set shots. Col moves forward in the place of Green in 2013 and Rivers gets his old role back.

You are very entitled to your opinion but if your looking for support from anyone it might help to put forth arguments that make sense. Your initial point of lack of senior players is one I agree with, but not with the way you presented it. Green could've gone one more year I think but he had a poor 2011 and his first half of the year was so bad he was dropped for the first time in years. I wouldn't have been against him continuing but he has accepted it and has told everyone to buy into Neeld and what he's trying to do. Neeld ain't going anywhere for a long time, so take Brads advice and buy in.

1. Jones (duh) 2. Grimes 3. Rivers 4. Howe 5. Clark (even missing half the year) Jordie would be the only other that I think could feature in the top 5, I reckon Neeld really likes his defensive efforts. Grimes started slow but I really think his last 5 games or so have shown why he's so highly regarded and it's reminded me of his previous good year. Just so rapt for him that he's played all but one game and the only one he missed was because of suspension.

English Premier league has three strips for each club, home, away, clash. EVERY AFL club should have the same thing if the League is genuine about this. Have an AFL strip available for clubs that refuse to do it and make them wear it. But they should also be logical about it, if there is no reason to wear an alternative don't make them! For us the clash and a reversed or the red with demon logo would do the job.

I agree with this, 3 years at a fair price, with bonuses when playing x amount of games and coming top 5 in B&F. I'm sure there'd be more they could put in but that's where I'd start.

A great example of the lows of playing at AFL level. We all see the top players earning $400,000+ and we think "wow they have it good", but his bloke has clearly struggled with the transition interstate and into this level. Best of luck in the next phase of your life.

For the first half we were beating them in most of the key stats and were using the ball ok, we just have a completely non-functional forward linen The amount of inside 50s with Clark in there, we would kick a lot more goals. In the middle they had: Dal Santo, Montagna, Hayes, Goddard. Guys that were a bees dick away from Premiership players. They had more quality and it showed when it counted. I'm baffled that some people can't take positives out of that win. This has given me belief for 2013 and beyond.

Certainly not my point of view, I think he's looking like he feels part of the group now, no longer a fringe player.

No doubt he should be our no. 1 priority. He's got so many attributes that we lack; pace, skill, flare, excitement, and I would say a touch of arrogance. The last one isn't meant to be an insult, he now believes in his ability he backs his pace and sort of says "catch me if you can". Reminds me of Davey when he first came to the club.

Compared to last year when we didn't even have junk time goals to make the margine respectable, I'll take our 25 point loss today over an 80 point belting. I didn't get to see much of the second half after Blease kicked to goal to bring us within a goal, it just sounds like that sparked to leaders of st Kilda to pull their fingers out. I saw signs we are on a working path. Considering the team out there, and the amount of passengers who are meant to be our top players, I can accept a loss like today's. The most important thing to me is I saw signs that play is becoming instinctual. They also seem to be trusting each other more and backing them to win a contest.

2nd quarter similar to the first except with a bit more reward for effort with two goals. Still really have to work on delivering the ball better into the 50. Our work rate is good and pressure is yeilding results. That goal to the saints was because of us, there's no way he should've been able to mark it, Strauss needed to listen to the umpire (that said I have seen players A LOT closer before). Shame, we really could've had them goalless that quarter. Howe stepped up his game that quarter, as did Jetta and Tappy. More positives than negatives for me ATM.

From what I've seen both captain Jacks are playing well (apart from Trenners kicking into the man on the mark). Grimes in particular is looking good in his 50th. Sellar showed he's a spud at both ends dropping an easy mark to gift Kozi a goal and never looking close to getting a set shot in the forward line. Jettas looking lively and has done a couple of good things. Jones as always is working his proverbial off, and is showing more still than half the team combined. Much more needed out of Beamer and Sylvia, ball movement is good but we're lacking the final step to deliver to the forwards. Watching on my iPhone so can't really tell, are the forwards doing enough on their leads?

Chill, it's planning for next year. If someone has a concern what do we gain by putting them in under duress? Watts I agree with your frustration, is it up to 4 weeks? I would like to see him in because he will be better for the experience but I guess the coaching staff just want to may sure our key players are good to go over the Pre-season. Surely last throw of the dice for Bate. Make him a lead up forward, Rivers to defense (where he bloody well should be IMO).

Keep: Blease, Rivers,Gysberts, Jurrah (re-rookie if possible) and maybe Beamer All others are well and truly on the chopping blocks.

I am getting seriously annoyed at seeing Watts out, how is it a player can have test against him name for so long and not play. Is something else going on here? Does he keep aggravating it at training? Would it be worth us putting him on ice for the last rounds?

Well there we go, he may have been given a nudge, he may be going out on his own terms who knows for certain. To me it doesn't sound like the Junior situation. Congratulations on a fantastic career, it's a shame your last couple of seasons weren't great but you have given me some wonderful memories. The one that sticks out for me is the Hawthorne game where we were up by 50+ points they came back and hit the front only for Brad to kick a set shot goal on the boundary line and I was right behind it! Perhaps announcing it in advance might even relax him and let him enjoy what time he has left. I hope boys play their asses off v Adelaide for his last game at the G, I will be there to say goodbye.

We have an extremely bad record in recent years of treating our older players with disrespect and contempt when comes to them closing out their careers. Junior was the worst of them because it wasn't a gentle nudge but a hard shove out the door. He wanted to go around again, he'd earnt the right to end on his terms, he was after all still playing good football. That caused Bruce to think about how he'll be treated in 1-2 years time by us and left for less money to be a reserves player at the Hawks. I wonder how he feels towards the club now? Our aggressive youth policy has put former players off the club, Brad is one I want to stay with us after he hangs up the boots.

Definitely put on ice, not going to gain anything by playing him.