P-man

That's true, but where the Hawks are most punishing is their speed and ability on the outside. The wet conditions will lessen the impact of that and, in theory at least, turn it into more of a contested slog. Contested footy is not the Hawks' strength. It does happen to be one of ours, albeit without Viney.

The most interesting thing about North and Freo is their coach. Clear one and two. Hawthorn games are fun to watch when they are in a dogfight ala the Adelaide match earlier this year. When they are skiing all over sides they are a sleeping pill. Unlike Geelong in their heyday who were a joy to watch. In all fairness though I'd have to nominate Brisbane as the third most boring side due to pure awfulness.

It's not a bad theory. I'd argue that Garland is no better than Dunn in that regard, and he seems to be getting ample opportunity. I also don't think the long kick (of which Dunn is the master) is the worst way of breaking through the press, but maybe I'm outdated. I know possession is king these days. As Steve says, some transparency would be novel but very welcomed. It doesn't have to be a Dunn bashing. Just a cliche-free explanation of what Dunn needs to work on to get into the side. Will never happen. If things like that happened, Demonland content would be halved overnight.

lol

I saw Cheney doing a presser the other day. Couldn't believe my eyes. I don't think I'd ever heard him talk before, let alone be considered worthy of fronting the media. Good on him.

Having only been able to watch Casey through the odd video I'll admit that I probably give more weight to his raw numbers than I should. He may just be an accumulator at this stage and certainly he looks like someone who needs time to develop in terms of his decisonmaking. But in terms of his skill set and his attack on the ball, I see a lot to work with. Not knowing Kennedy's situation, I don't know if he was dropped purely on performance or if there was a mystery injury involved. Dropping both he and Kent would upset the balance no doubt, but Kent has gone missing when the chips are down quite badly this year. I think overall it's been a pretty lacklustre season and I'm starting to think he may be overrated. Hopefully he tosses that in my face this weekend.

Michie and Newton are very much depth players. Whether the club is happy to retain them as such only time will tell. I think Michie gets underrated offensively, but defensively he still lacks urgency which is disappointing. In the side and culture being developed, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Well said. Selection has been a failing of the season so far. This week is probably the most reasonable to date but there are still question marks. Roos justified the five changes this week by saying players needed a rest. Garland and Viney are out injured, while Newton and ANB only just came into the side. Kennedy is the only one you could reasonably argue was "rested". We continue to load up the side with inexperience, and some of the players getting reprieves for average performances aren't exactly certainties to retain their spots in the future, i.e. Wagner, Hunt and Harmes. If it was Brayshaw and Salem it would be a little easier to digest. For a third year in charge, it certainly looks a lot like a development year. Dunn and Grimes aren't a panacea, but I don't believe we are genuinely fielding a best 22 every week.

I'm gonna wait a couple of weeks but he's a highly likely downgrade

Newton and Michie are 24. ANB is 20. He's been given two attempts this year to make an impact. He was pretty good in one of them. I find it a bit crazy that he is being spoken about as another Newton. But I take your overall point that the midfield depth gets overstated.

I thought he played well against GC, albeit against an opponent that allowed him more time and space. He was poor on the weekend but I would've retained him personally. Kent is a lucky lad. Harmes has had plenty of stinkers this year, let's not pretend otherwise. Hunt is a goer, but he's far from the complete package. However it's apples and oranges and as you say, ANB plays in an area where there is a lot more competition.

Geeze, ANB has been binned pretty quickly. Bizarre. Wasn't he SA's best player or close to in the TAC Cup? A second year player who destroys it in the VFL is worth persevering with. He just hasn't been offered the same opportunities as the likes of Harmes and Hunt. Let him slide elsewhere and he is more than capable of burning us.

If only BBO was living in Tuscany. Someone needs to ruin that party.

I can confirm tongue being planted in cheek on that. Frustration re Dunn's non-selection is not, however. Suddenly he's become the slowest, fattest, stupidest footballer alive. It's absurd. He's in our best 22 players and should clearly be playing for mine. I take your point re following instruction but as you say it is only speculation. I thought it was a fantastic resurrection of a career culminating in a VC appointment last year. Things have turned south very quickly which I find disappointing. It might look like I overdefend the likes of Dunn and Grimes. I appreciate that eventually you move past players of that ilk. But for me, we haven't reached that point yet with Dunn, not when the guy taking his spot is bambi in footy boots, and we absolutely should be getting Grimes to 100 games.

This week would've been perfect for him to run out with Trenners, but no room for sentimentality I guess.

I'm with those who are mystified. I thought the days of giving senior players the middle finger were in the past but apparently not. So he had a bad game against the Saints. He wasn't exactly alone. Maybe playing O Mac is a ploy to get his brother to sign...

It's certainly frustrating to watch when you're conceding 4-5 goals on a silver platter to the opposition. I don't recall the Eagles or Bulldogs experiencing this amount of teething problems when implementing their defensive game plans, though I could be mistaken.

i was choking up when friggin Robbo was talking about Trenners on 360. I could be a blubbering mess on Saturday. My looking forward to this game has just gone from meh to majorly pumped.

I look forward to the post match where Roos says they got selection wrong. That would make it the fourth time this year. But of course he's not to be believed. Believe nothing he says, ever. It's just to take the heat off the players. Or something.

The onus on the tackler has swung too far. The onus on the player with the ball not to create a free kick through deceptive means should be just as great if not greater. I don't see how an action like Thomas' who backs into a player, drapes the arm around the shoulder and pins it there can be defended. It doesn't even need to be punished per se. But at the absolute least, if the umpire spots it, it should be play on. This is a ticking time bomb in so many respects. Potential injuries aside, there aren't many things that genuinely contravene the spirit of the game but this is one. It needs to be addressed.

It's difficult to know whether Scott is saying it in order to spur the AFL into action. It's a brazen admission in either case. Surely the AFL attempts to arrest this issue now before it becomes even more widespread. Training to draw high tackles coupled with the top handful players in the league for drawing high tackles being first or second year players are major signs that this is getting out of hand fast.

Demonland Player of the Year: Unofficial Tally Votes (games polling votes/games played) 1. Viney - 335 (8/10) 2. Gawn - 262 (7/10) 3. N Jones - 193 (9/10) 4. Jetta - 167 (8/9) 5. Hogan - 160 (7/10) 6. Watts - 157 (7/10) 7. Tyson - 124 (5/9) 8. Vince - 119 (8/9) 9. Kennedy - 112 (5/10) 10. Stretch - 76 (3/5) 11. Garlett - 65 (4/8) 12. T McDonald - 63 (5/10) 13. Bugg - 59 (4/10) 14. Oliver - 48 (4/7) 15. Harmes - 30 (3/10) 16. Lumumba - 24 (2/5) 17. Petracca - 22 (1/5) 18. Hunt - 21 (2/7) 19. Wagner - 19 (3/8) 20. Kent - 16 (2/9) 21. M Jones - 13 (2/4) 22. Pedersen - 8 (4/7) 23. Frost - 3 (1/5) 24. Salem - 3 (1/7) 25. Garland - 1 (1/6) Best per round (vote order) Rd 1 (GWS): Viney, Watts, T McDonald, Kennedy, N Jones, Oliver, Gawn, Vince, Jetta, M Jones, Hogan Rd 2 (Ess): Kennedy, Garlett, N Jones, Vince, Tyson, M Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Pedersen Rd 3 (Nth): Viney, Gawn, Vince, Lumumba, Jetta, Oliver, Hogan, Kent, Salem Rd 4 (Coll): Watts, Viney, Gawn, Wagner, Tyson, N Jones, T McDonald, Lumumba, Kennedy, Pedersen, Frost, Bugg, Hogan, Jetta Rd 5 (Rich): Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, T McDonald, Watts, Kent, N Jones Rd 6 (StK): Hogan, Viney, N Jones, Watts, Jetta, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy, Pedersen Rd 7 (GC): Gawn, Viney, N Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Oliver, Bugg, Hunt, Vince, Wagner, Pedersen, Garlett Rd 8 (WB): Jetta, Tyson, Viney, Kennedy, Stretch, Vince, T McDonald, Watts, Hogan, Jones Rd 9 (Bris): Hogan, Stretch, Bugg, Petracca, N Jones, Watts, Garlett, Oliver, Harmes, Wagner, Vince, Garland Rd 10 (PA): Gawn, Jetta, N Jones, Hogan, Watts, Hunt, Stretch, T McDonald, Viney

Got a chuckle out of Oliver "dodging tacklers like Neo dodging bullets in the Matrix".

Super duper. Vanders when fit to go straight into the middle.

With all due respect LH, saying that Vince, Jones and Garlett are "treading water" is not a fair reflection on their output. They are performing at the same or similar level to last year, which is what you would expect. A ratings system that assesses their season on its own merits rather than in comparison to last year would provide a better depiction of what is required. I also assume Bugg's rating is a mistake. Despite the fact I wouldn't classify him as a senior player, I don't see how it could be argued that he hasn't improved on 2015. The brutal truth regarding the large remainder of that senior group is they aren't much chop. But that said, if they can come in play to their optimum, it will go a long way towards reaching that goal of 10 or 11 wins. The senior players that I'd really hope to see make an impact in the second half of the year are Dunn, Trengove, Grimes, Dawes and Lumumba. They are capable. Whether the coaches are willing to place their faith in them is another matter.