P-man

Still one of my favourites. I don't think of him as a Pies player as that would make it impossible to like him. I consider him a Melbourne fan who ended up at the wrong club.

^digging the confidence (til Nash came and shat on it ) They have a formidable team on paper and are virtually unstoppable at home. It would be Roos' greatest win by a long way. Much better than beating a mid table Geelong last year.

How did the Saints team rank for age and games experience? I know that going into the season their squad was ranked 13th in both areas, a couple of rankings above us. We're not exactly talking about Hawthorn here in terms of the gap. Roos' excuse about carry over from the Lyon era holding them in greater stead does not really wash with me. He's talking about a team that won the spoon in 2014. I understand the logic to yours and Nash's arguments about the third rebuild and the state of the list, but surely a part of the club progressing is acknowledging when a loss is totally unacceptable, which is where that loss firmly sits. It was akin to the Carlton loss last year and the Essendon loss this year. That has to be acknowledged, which is basically what I felt Ox was doing amidst the ranting about player development. People tire of excuses after a while, in any walk of life. When there has been a different excuse to reel out every week for the past decade or so, eventually the question gets asked, how much of this is inbuilt into the club's psyche? To meekly allow St Kilda, a youngish team themselves, to miss about ten sitters in front of goal and still cast us aside on their way to an easy 6 goal victory is simply not good enough. You hope it isn't ingrained and results can be attributed to the reasons you and others have outlined, but skepticism is understandable. The traditional Melbourne bounce back the week after an embarrassment is hopefully on the cards in Perth, but there has to be a lot more fight shown for the remainder of the season as a whole. If there isn't, I expect someone in Ox's position to once again label it not good enough, and be within his rights to do so. The club must be held accountable at every step if we are to get towards being even in the vicinity of a top four challenger.

Very inexperienced team but I don't mind putting the challenge to the likes of Stretch, Brayshw and ANB. Not a Matt Jones fan as I simply don't trust his ability, but a fifth change was probably one too many and we already looked a bit one paced. The main thing I want to see is the tackle count greatly improving. 14-3 tackles in forward 50 was another damning reflection on work rate. That needs to improve significantly if we are to have any chance. And if we jump them early and convert it on the scoreboard, we are a chance.

Three years is a decent show of faith by both parties. Well done Jacky boy. Two big dominos left to fall.

Fair point, although how much can be attributed to him playing predominantly an inside role given the absence of other players over the past two years when he's starting to hit his prime? He can play on the outside I guess is the main point. The only concern for me is the ongoing injury. I'd still be gunning for him.

Just a frustrated supporter letting off steam the next day, much like the rest of us. Only difference is Ox has a microphone and a much larger audience to vent at. Putting aside the accuracy of his comments on development, I don't mind him doing this. It provides a counterpoint to the general ambivalence from the football media. This was arguably the greatest test of the season with finals still on the line at a ground and against a team where the club has a horrific record. By and large, that test was failed dismally. A blowtorch should be applied, and if Ox doesn't do it, few others could be bothered to do so.

I rate ANB. There is a base there. He can be polished into a good AFL player. He might always have a bit of meat and potatoes about him, but the meat will be tenderloin and the potatoes will be la bonnotte.

No he doesn't. Not that I've seen anyway. He's been pretty slow from the get go. He is a bull at a gate when fully fit and he's strong overhead, but speed and skill is definitely lacking. I think many of us may have jumped the gun on his capabilities. We need better players than him to progress.

If the sample size was one game (yesterday's), I might agree. But you're talking about a team that's been spanked by the Eagles and Crows to the tune of around 100 points and lost to the Suns by 5 goals a few weeks ago. I admit that many fall into a trap of underrating their young players like Newnes, Ross and Gresham, who to me all look well rounded, skillful players who keep their feet in a contest, work hard running both ways and make smart decisions. I think the influence of Montagna and Riewoldt gets overstated sometimes out of hope more than anything. They are certainly influential, but I don't seem the team falling in a heap when they leave like some will claim. They have some genuine quality coming through and taking on responsibility. All that said, they are not a 10 goal better side than we are. They play that ground infinitely better than we do, and when they matched our pressure and then bettered it, they got on top. That doesn't make them better, just harder working. They also annoyingly happen to produce their best footy against us. Richardson himself said the third quarter was the best they've played all season. I've read elsewhere that it was the best game Gilbert has played in at least 3 months. Overall I'd say they are more advanced than we are. But not to the extent of being a 10 goal better side. I do think we need to attack trade and free agency with all guns blazing after witnessing yesterday. There are some holes we need to fill with quality coupled with experience, and the need is fairly immediate. Players won't stick around for another two years of wallowing mid table, beating up on teams at a low ebb and crumbling against almost any team that brings its A game. That's not progressing with any real conviction. I have wavered on Prestia, but right now I think he and Hibberd are close to must get targets for the club.

Getting this out of the way to reduce time spent reflecting on this game and its ramifications. Demonland Player of the Year: Unofficial Tally Votes (games polling votes/games played) 1. Gawn - 419 (13/16) 2. Viney - 408 (11/15) 3. N Jones - 324 (14/16) 4. Watts - 313 (13/16) 5. Vince - 287 (12/15) 6. Jetta - 217 (12/15) 7. Hogan - 215 (10/16) 8. Tyson - 207 (8/15) 9. T McDonald - 166 (10/16) 10. Kennedy - 114 (6/15) 11. Hunt - 112 (8/13) 12. Garlett - 97 (5/12) 13. Stretch - 83 (4/10) 14. Bugg - 69 (5/14) 15. Petracca - 67 (5/11) 16. Kent - 50 (6/15) 17. Oliver - 48 (4/10) 18. Harmes - 47 (5/14) 19. Wagner - 31 (5/12) 20. Lumumba - 24 (2/5) 21. M Jones - 18 (4/7) 22. Grimes - 14 (1/2) 23. Frost - 12 (3/10) 24. Pedersen - 8 (4/7) 25. Salem - 3 (1/7) 26. Trengove - 3 (1/2) 27. vandenBerg - 3 (1/9) 28. Garland - 1 (1/6) Best per round (vote order) Rd 1 (GWS): Viney, Watts, T McDonald, Kennedy, N Jones, Oliver, Gawn, Vince, Jetta, M Jones, Hogan Rd 2 (ESS): Kennedy, Garlett, N Jones, Vince, Tyson, M Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Pedersen Rd 3 (NTH): Viney, Gawn, Vince, Lumumba, Jetta, Oliver, Hogan, Kent, Salem Rd 4 (COL): Watts, Viney, Gawn, Wagner, Tyson, N Jones, T McDonald, Lumumba, Kennedy, Pedersen, Frost, Bugg, Hogan, Jetta Rd 5 (RIC): Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Vince, Garlett, T McDonald, Watts, Kent, N Jones Rd 6 (STK): Hogan, Viney, N Jones, Watts, Jetta, Gawn, Vince, Tyson, Bugg, Kennedy, Pedersen Rd 7 (GC): Gawn, Viney, N Jones, Jetta, Harmes, Oliver, Bugg, Hunt, Vince, Wagner, Pedersen, Garlett Rd 8 (WB): Jetta, Tyson, Viney, Kennedy, Stretch, Vince, T McDonald, Watts, Hogan, N Jones Rd 9 (BRI): Hogan, Stretch, Bugg, Petracca, N Jones, Watts, Garlett, Oliver, Harmes, Wagner, Vince, Garland Rd 10 (PA): Gawn, Jetta, N Jones, Hogan, Watts, Hunt, Stretch, T McDonald, Viney Rd 11 (HAW): Vince, Tyson, N Jones, Jetta, Watts, Gawn, Hunt, Frost, Wagner, Petracca, Trengove Rd 12 (COL): Gawn, Vince, N Jones, Tyson, Kent, Bugg, Hogan, T McDonald, Petracca, Frost, Hunt, Kennedy, Watts Rd 13 (SYD): Hunt, Vince, Gawn, Watts, Petracca, N Jones, Wagner, T McDonald Rd 14 (BYE) Rd 15 (ADE): Watts, N Jones, Hunt, Garlett, Jetta, Harmes, Stretch, T McDonald, Hogan, Gawn, Kent, Viney Rd 16 (FRE): T McDonald, Hogan, Watts, Gawn, Grimes, Viney, N Jones, Tyson, Jetta, Kent, M Jones, Hunt, vandenBerg Rd 17 (STK): Viney, Gawn, T McDonald, Vince, Watts, Kent, Petracca, Harmes, Hunt, Jetta, M Jones

Please close this nonsense.

I love JV so much.

We have absolutely no right to be in this game.

Does Hamish get off on constantly quoting all these horrific stats? Everyone know we've been [censored] Hamish you tool.

This is ridiculous.

Kent was probably our best in that quarter. Genuinely exciting when he plays like this. Watts is looking a class above at times.

You just know the only times Matthews watches Melbourne is when he's commentating their games.

What the... When someone who joined up last month immediately launches into a passionate and at times angry defence of Essendon over the drug saga, including questioning the intelligence of people who disagree, whilst claiming close Essendon connections (including ones acquired through financial contributions), forgive me for being a tad suspicious. I personally couldn't care less if he says Hurley is staying, going, or remaining in Spain to become a bull fighter. I mean come on. This guy couldn't be a more blatant koolaid drinker if he had Hird as his avatar. It's not even remotely subtle.

This is a reservation for sure. Stretch was very quiet last week so it makes some degree of sense, but as much as I'm in the Grimes camp, relying on him and M Jones as our outside runners is cause for some nerves. Stretch has that combination of speed and class which the others don't. Gus is a good in though. Provided he can last a decent portion of the game.

Thanks for sharing. Might be time to tell the folks down at ESPN that the club has had a new logo for several months now.

A team defensive effort that doesn't allow them the freedom to move the ball from one end to the other Globetrotter-style will be a good start.

I too am overcome with joy for him.

Dogs better bring the lube for this game.

Roos has done the job that was asked of him. He's had a central role in giving us our footy club back. Not overly fussed as to where that places him in the rankings. It's comparing apples with oranges in some respects.