DeeSpencer

His style in the APS was exactly what you'd think most top draft picks were, win a truckload of footy and pretty much do as you please. He did the same thing in the under 18 carnival for NT.Hawthorn didn't develop his game breaker ability at all. That's like saying the Australian cricket team taught Shane Warne to bowl or Don Bradman to bat. Hawthorn did get him fitter than he was and allow him to make an impact playing very good defensive footy in his first year, and ever since they've got him fitter and managed him through a series of hamstring injuries. That I'll give them credit for. They also developed a strong indigenous culture that helped Franklin and Rioli amongst others get the best out of themselves. If he was at Melbourne he'd still be a good player, but maybe more a less fit small forward with the occasional good game. As oppose to a guy who is always dangerous and occasionally breaks games open in 5 minutes. However it's still up to the individual as seen with Carl Pederson who left Hawthorn after one promising year. We can do lots for Jurrah, but if he can't rise above the obstacles his background have put in front of him and become a good citizen and professional athlete then I won't really be blaming the club.

I don't look at it for a Fitzy up forward point of view, I'm not sure he's up to that yet, but as an opportunity to play Fitzy in the ruck and let Jamar play forward it's a real option. Big Russian would be hard to beat if isolated deep considering they have to take care of Clark as well.So from my point of view I'd be playing whichever of Fitzy or Sellar offers you the best option in the ruck, which may well be Fitzy. He rucked ok in the nab cup and is doing well in the VFL, where as Sellar doesn't look like much of a ruckman, although he's a handier forward than Fitzy at this stage.

The bye is disappointing, the players in the reserves not so much. Lawrence doesn't appear up to it, but Nicho is there for game time, Williams is just starting out and Spencer is obviously returning from a long term injury. Let's hope they all play well.

Carlton didn't employ him for a recruiting role. They picked him for another role that his years of experience in footy is probably well suited to. What was Neeld going to say? Our recruiters are no good just before the draft? I wish BP well, but for mine I was skeptical when he came to the club as he didn't have huge experience in recruiting and whilst I'm disappointed with the situation for this year (Todd Viney heading our recruiting instead of a full time recruiting manager with experience)I don't think replacing BP was the worst idea.

The Selwood drop is so fustrating. Ashton Hams at West Coast is the new master of it. Shame that no one can fix in the old fashion way which would be in a bloke kept ducking to swing a nice arm through and break his jaw.

How many touches did Watts' opponent have, because some Tigers put up massive numbers. Grigg with 37 for example, and Conca and Houli both kicking goals. If we wanted a winger or flanker for our first draft pick we should have taken Yarran, Hill or Rich. Sure Watts is making strides but if he can't get a kick at CHF it's about time he plays at CHB. Putting him on Liam Jones this week wouldn't be the worst place to start.

What else happened that year? They got a new coach who has since got them playing a respectable brand of football and having a very promising midfield.What do we need right now? Exactly the above.

Interesting though, I doubt any of Carlton, Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast or Collingwood will miss the eight, so if North want to make it they have to be in the next best 3 of Sydney, Freo, Adelaide, Essendon and StKilda. Though year ahead for our mob, those 11 are already clearly better than us, as are Richmond and Brisbane. Leaves us down with Port, Bulldogs and the expansion clubs. Here's to tanking without having to even try, its 2007/2008 all over again.

OUT: Martin, McDonald IN: Moloney, Couch FB: Bartram Frawley Rivers HB: Grimes Watts Garland C: Trengove Moloney Morton HF: Dunn Howe Bail FF: Davey Clark Tapscott Foll: Jamar Jones McKenzie Int: Sellar Couch Magner S: Bate Emer: Tynan, McDonald, Martin Ok so Watts as a wingman has served its purpose for a while, he's finding the footy, but now we have to get back to developing him as a key position player. If they don't want to play him at CHF lets give him a chance at CHB where we could desperately use some clean ball use and decision making. Same goes for Howe. Whilst he was good around the ball and at half back I want to see him playing at CHF again this week, that said I'm still happy for Clark to spend time up the ground and Sellar to take the job of full forward. The main thing we need is a midfield though, so Couch and Moloney demand selection. With Tapscott, Morton and Bail we have guys who can rotate between the wings and half back/half forward. It's a side with much better balance than last week which I hope leads to at least a competitive edge.

That's the Bailey route and its a massive mistake. Jamar isn't in great touch but their were times when he was right on top of Maric on the weekend and he took a few nice marks around the ground. Whenever we put Martin in the ruck we lost our ascendancy. A struggling Jamar is way above a battling Martin who has never looked like a true AFL ruck.

The biggest issue with Martin resting as a defender is under pressure from good sides he becomes Warnock or Bartram like. It might be a stop gap option but it isn't sustainable so I don't see the point. Simply I think we need a first string ruckman (Jamar, Gawn, ?Spencer), ideally a second ruck who can play forward (? Martin, ?Sellar, ? Fitzpatrick) and then at least 1 other tall forward (Clark). We are lucky that when they are in the team and playing well we could probably get away with just one key forward in Clark and use mobile (that's important) medium forwards like Jurrah and Howe. At the moment I think Sellar offers more than Martin. He is more predictable in the air for marking or bring the ball to ground and leads better as a forward than Martin. He's not much chop as ruck but neither is Martin. At this stage Martin has battled into the season and the best option for him is to go back to Casey and play 50/50 forward and ruck so he gets his confidence up. Once he finds his touch again he'll come back and potentially be a bonus for the team.

The saints (at that stage an experienced team) took a long time to understand Ross Lyon's style after getting rid of Thomas. You can see the bulldogs are struggling as well. Adelaide have gone the other way, they are playing better now that a constrictive Craig game plan has been replaced by what looks from the outside as a pretty flowing style under Sanderson. So I certainly wasn't never expecting much from this year especially with the midfield and half forward line we currently have. If we were ever going to get off to a good start it would require our mids been up and about and our half forward line the same (a real weakness for us). That said Brisbane and Richmond's third quarters were ridiculous and can not be excused by any game plan, injuries or lack of fitness.

I agree it's a long bow.But when a guy is losing to big Leigh Williams in the repeat 400m runs in preseason you have to ask are they seriously giving it their all. That said I think not playing him at half back is a mistake, but what he really needs to do now is to become a star VFL midfielder, when he does that he'll get back in the senior team and make an impact.

Maybe, but it's a legitimate thread about the future of 2 potentially important players and the hope that it starts this week and something good comes of it. thought "the Kreuzer Cup" thread, "lets do something to help Eddie thread", "got rid of Malthouse early" thread and the ridiculously optimistic "BJ Goddard? option?" could all be combined into the Collingwood/Carlton who gives .... thread. Anyone else want to see a successor of Jared 'too small, too disinterested' Rivers at CHB or a legitimate option at CHF for once as it seems Watts is failing and playing undersized players - Howe, Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Green, Jurrah and co haven't done the trick yet. (Note: Watts still has time as in contributing on a wing and Howe, Petterd, Dunn and Jurrah might still flourish when we finally do find a CHF).

With Stef Martin coming in up forward and back up ruck again you'd think think it makes sense not to have Sellar forward either. Then with the Tigers mainly having the 3 big forwards and a bunch of crumbers up forward I can't see the need to have Sellar and McDonald both down back. So I think it's time to see a couple of guys play in the positions that they've been recruited and trained all preseason for. Vickery is a perfect match up for Sellar, which then free's up Rivers to play on Miller and in turn Garland can play on a small. The overall result of this is hopefully well suited defenders can beat their opponents and help nullify Riewoldt. At the other end Rance will surely go to Clark which means Stef Martin and McDonald will be minded by Dylan Grimes and Batchelor. I like both of those young Tiger defenders and hope Martin and McDonald can put in strong performances, and if they do we might finally see Watts or Howe get on top of shorter opponents. Neeld might want to play Sellar and McDonald the other way around or put them both back, but for the development of the individual and the team I'd like to see them play where they've trained. Of course all will count for nothing if we can't match their midfield, but having all but given up the end result I'm looking for some positive development of some talls.

I'm underwhelmed as well. It looks like we generally have 3 positions for full time staff in recruiting. A head recruiter whose job will be essentially left blank this year and merged under Viney's role until the Collingwood chap comes out of contract, and 2 full time recruiting officers. It seems those positions will be filled by Burleigh who seems to me to be part of the team who have recruited poorly in the last decade and now a guy who hasn't ever done the job before. Sure he's got a good background with community and football experience but couldn't we lure a part time guy from Geelong or Hawthorn into this full time role in football? I don't think the magnitude of this years draft can be underestimated. We've got 3 first round picks, one of which will be Viney but we need to nail the other 2 and all our other picks. It's the best opportunity for us to get talented, tough footballer players in so that with the talent we've already added we can craft a proper side. If we stuff up this year then I'm not sure we'll ever get it right.

FB: Garland Frawley Bartram HB: Grimes Rivers McDonald C: Trengove Jones Watts HF: Bate Howe Dunn FF: Bail Clark Petterd Foll: Jamar Magner McKenzie Int: Sellar Tynan Couch S: Bennell Out: Green, Macdonald In: Couch, Tynan We may as well give young Tynan another go. He ran out of puff in his first game but before that he was actually ok. You know he'll give you 100% and put his head over it and that's enough. More than I can say for Brad Green who has been replaced by Bate into the starting line up who can at least win the ball occassionally even if he can't exert forward pressure. Joel Macdonald can have a week off. He borders on inept. Let's give Couch a shot. The last position is hard to fill but Bennell coming on as a sub might be able to produce something and we can't promote substandard VFL performers, it's not worth it. Sellar can keep his spot over Martin as he deserves to prove himself as a back up ruck/forward in a game where the ball actually comes to the forward line and not against the best ruck partnership in the league. Moloney can prove he's got more to offer than Magner, McKenzie, Jones or Couch, either through the VFL or a week more of strong training.

I doubt even dropping Joel Macdonald will save us. Maybe keep kicking the ball to Rance, that worked well for Collingwood. Or start a half time brawl and produce Daisy Thomas for the 3rd quarter. In all seriousness Neeld needs to inspire the players with some confidence now. Tough love is great, but he has to make the players believe they can actually play. We saw that in the first 15 minutes against West Coast where we moved the ball ok at times and pressured them. If we do that for the whole first quarter we'll be in front of richmond at quarter time. That would be a start.

I know it sounds lame but what about a forum/supporter wide social media campaign. Get everyone on big footy, demonland, ology, the cheer squad to start something on twitter and get it trending. I'm sure some of the players would jump onto it. Look at the guy who did the Scully video that went viral last year and the Kony video this year. I know there are a lot of talented people on here so if they created something amazing we could register as a blip on a companies map and it could go from there. Or if all else fails isnt there a mining magnate we can use for political purposes and splash say no to carbon tax across the back of our jumpers. It would fit well with our traditional supporter base. It might be slightly against AFL policy though.

"Jim Stynes’ death appears to have buried the Melbourne Football Club – at least for season 2012." Doing Jim Stynes' puns just a couple of weeks after his death. Maybe you are Polis aren't so far removed Smith you sad excuse for a journalist. Where is your mention of the rebels and victory who also had board meetings and took longer than we did to terminate. What a horrible article.

We need midfielders, preferably with the ability to play forward or back but even if they can't if they can win some clearances then thats a start. West Coast have great forward pressure without a designated quick small forward.

Yes it would have been, but Jamar was probably about even in his time in the ruck in that he negated the influence of the opposition, but he didn't do anything to contribute positively to winning clearances.When Martin went in their it wasn't pretty. Leuny outsized him, Hudson outsmarted him especially at boundary throw ins. Martin needs to learn to attack the footy as a forward. He's gone backwards from last year in that regard. I don't like his chances of making it as much as I did last year and I wouldn't be surprised if Sellar is in as a back up ruck soon. You'll know he'll at least understand his limits and play team football.

One of the simple yet most alarming things yesterday was forwards were simply not leading at the ball carrier and attempting to create space. Regardless of the game plan being long kicking around the boundary you still need to move to make things happen and the midfielders and forwards were simply not giving the backmen any options. So are Moloney, Davey and Green who were 3 big examples of this simply confused by the game plan and trying to work it out or are they lazy footballers who won't spread and help their team mates. I see Magner and Trengove running to be an option, I saw Rohan Bail, Jeremy Howe and Josh Tynan doing it, why aren't the leaders?

Hudson in the ruck so that Leunberger along with your full back in Merrett can be your key forwards. I know it worked against us and they are unlucky to have Staker and Brown injured but what exactly are they achieving. Surely at some stage Michael Voss has to put some faith in some kids to hold down key posts.

James Magner, one of the VFL's best midfielders from last year proved today to be our best midfielder by a clear margin. What a joke. Trengove for all his positives doesn't seem a real weapon in close yet. Maybe it's still early days, but maybe he's a better player in a Bartel like role floating from half forward to wing, to the guts. I'd love to see him set a few tagging jobs for his education. Sylvia isn't an AFL midfielder, he's an in and out type as well. McKenzie (despite being short a run today) and Jones are reasonable off the bench midfield depth, a bit like Curnow and Robinson at Carlton. Really if you follow the diagram below I think we need about 4 extra midfielders to fit the missing spots, plus depth after that. Today those 4 spots were filled by Moloney, Tynan, Watts and Green/Blease. That really isn't going to cut it. Sylvia takes the half forward flank spot and maybe in time Tynan can make it as a back flank/rotating wingman. But really we need 2 class ball winning midfielders to make Moloney, McKenzie, Jones, Bate, Magner, Gysberts and Couch compete for a couple of depth spots. In the mean time I expect we'll be shuffling these guys round a bit with no real success. Their inability to play other positions does hurt them. But their inability to actually get on top of the clearance chart hurts the most. Other plays on our list can form part of the rotations like Tapscott, Petterd maybe even Morton and who knows what we'll get form Taggert, but at the end of the day I think we'll have to go back to the draft and try and find the top end quality. It's so sad that even before round 1 this year I was thinking this would happen and hope we could get our hands on Viney and another class mid from the draft. C: Trengove xxxxx xxxxxx Foll: Ruck Magner xxxxxx HF: Bail/Petterd CHF xxxxx/Sylvia/Tapscott Int: McKenzie Jones