DeeSpencer

Sellar is depth guys. He is our depth forward/ruck and our depth defender. In fairness to him he rucked ok but just isn't a forward. Mentally he struggles to play forward but can be a good defender. He isn't a problem and is worth a spot on the list. Pedersen is our back up forward/ruck to go with Clark and Dawes and to be honest wasn't the worst yesterday. Besides when he dropped his head he didn't have an awful game considering. He found more of the ball than Clark and the rest of the forwards. Again he is a transition player whilst we wait for Hogan. I don't think he wastes a spot on the list. Gilies on yesterday is a complete waste of a spot on a list. That is somewhat obvious when you remember Geelong cut him and no one wanted him. He's slow, unfit and just plain bad with ball in hand but its his defensive ability which is the worst thing. It's another poor recruitment. We already have Troy Davis we didn't need Gillies, plus if we knew how bad Gillies was we could of played Sellar in his rightful spot and god help us included Fitzpatrick for a different style of set up. Dawes was out guys, we had to play Sellar and Pedersen. We move on from this topic and focus on how bad some experienced guys played because these 3 aren't the long term problem. Except it highlights our below par recruitment when you look at Monfries, Stephenson and Heath torching us.

Yep jamar seems soft. Knows he has no competition so doesn't jump just plays jump ball. I agree with ox. Really though a lot of teams play young talls no better than pedo and sellar and beat us. It's a mindset and generally 22 issue which falls to the coaches. Misso might have the fitness up but anyone who watches Melbourne train should know that the quality of training is still really bad

So today we had jamar, sellar, 4 - gillies, frawley, pedersen, Clark and everyone else was a runner besides garland who we use as a back pocket. A lot of teams use more defensive back pockets. Structure is a cop out in terms of players. If Dunn and watts can't run the ball it's not structure but talent. Of course the game plan is a problem is well. We need guys who can attack and defend and it's either their talent or their work rate more than their height which is the problem.

Toumpy would of had 20 and 2 goals for port. But then again the reason port won was because they had guys liked every, hartlett And boak killing us. Jimmy showed flashes, lets wait and see.

At the very least I'd take Brett ratten as midfield coach. The coaching group supporting Neeld are irrelevant or incompetent

I agree. Frawley runs around in some stupid zone lost as can be. When he should be playing full back shutting down Schultz and running off him. He's wasted trying to play like nick maxwell in a team with zero midfield or forward pressure

In: McDonald, terlich, kent, jetta, dawes, man on man Out: gillies, Nicholson, tapscott, garland, sellar, the zone crap FB: Jetta, frawley, Dunn Hb: watts, McDonald, terlich C: grimes, jones, jones Hf: howe, Dawes, blease Ff: Byrnes. Clark, kent Foll: Jamar, mckenzie, Viney Int: Rodan, pedersen, Sylvia S: toumpas

In his defense he inherited a lazy bunch of b graders and had to clean the place out and couldn't or wouldn't do it after his first year so he's only just got started. 7 new players for the club today including 3 midfielders on debut and 4 guys (Rodan, Byrnes, pedersen and gillies) who aren't up to other clubs standards. How was that ever going to work. We should of had Stef Martin, moloney, rivers, bennell, Morton and gysberts out there in their place but we all know that would of been even worse. But I don't blame Neeld for the list management. I think in time it will prove to be reasonable. I do blame Neeld for the game plan which is atrocious and only makes us worse. It's either too complicated or just wrong. Scrap it and play man on man. I also blame him for the lack if individual improvement. Mostly j blame him for the lack of pride and spirit. We own the 22 most insipid footballers in the league.

2 different issues. Firstly with terlich best on in particular Nicholson I'd ok notice the small defender spot is up for grabs. The second issue is related to the comments made about the coach earlier muttering about the game plan

Dan Nicholson on notice for tomorrow. How does he go under pressure? Sounds like the coach deserves a written warning, absolutely unacceptable attitude. Too big for his boots.

Saturday night footy now featuring Cameron ling, some occasional work from Richo and a bunch of rubbish from the rest. What I'd give for some proper analysis at half time or any stage

Not all mature recruits are the same. Magner and couch are predictable but jones, terlich and clisby we don't know what they can do.

Old mate from the big day out would of enjoyed it. And Rohan bail. I don't want to wish any long term injury or pain or anyone. But Robinson is one I wouldn't mind not having to watch

Toumpas as sub makes sense to me. Eases the burden on debuting players. Viney and Matt jones have been prepared to play round 1, lets see how they go. Sounds like no Dawes, sensible decision. Hope tommy Mc plays because I think gillies can play but he's not a strong big defender he's more of a third tall. That might make us very tall but the club obviously has faith in watts, Dunn and garland having the speed to play small. That said I thought terlich was the man for the last defensive spot. Have Nicholson, Jetta or Strauss done enough?

I'd consider the Geelong tactic and start blease, Sylvia or Rodan loose at chb for the first bounce with the instruction of running straight through the guts and hopefully getting on to the ball. The first play doesn't decide the match but I certainly agree that a spark helps set the tone.

I'm not convinced. There is a lot of Fitzpatrick about him as he's got the speed but does he have the size and strength to make it. He's a guy I'd like on my list but not be overly keen on paying up for him. As said previously we just need to watch Gawn especially for the year and see how he goes.

newton had spencer covered by miles. Actually could kick the ball and moved ok as well. Remember mark of the year. Bloke was just too flaky for the afl.

Moloney, Rivers and Gysberts are the 3 with potential to hurt us. Moloney and Rivers obviously walked and could play very well for their new sides. Gysberts was traded and again I think it was the right move but highly rated midfielders who haven't had the time/work effort to develop their bodies can still end up good players. Imagine if Essendon got rid of Watson a few years ago and he popped up at another club. Even Sam Blease was looking like never making it last year and now we all love him. I remember something Grant Thomas once said in that he delisted Guerra mainly to send a message to the young saints that mediocre isn't good enough knowing fair well they had Milne and had other talents as small pockets. Clarkson swooped and got himself a trusty defender and the rest is history. On the balance of probabilities I'm not sure how much Gysberts has in him regardless of effort, if he doesn't get fit, strong and clean up his disposal he'll just be a plodder with decent hands, but again he could be our version of Guerra. We'd take McLean back on the books for free but the deal was fine. Obviously Scott Thompson wanted to go home and there isn't/wasn't a melbourne supporter who wouldn't loved to have kept him but that's the way it goes sometimes. Oh and if anything this thread highlights what went wrong from 2010 to 2012 where we were looking the goods but it all fell in a heap. In 2010 Bennell and Petterd looked like future quality players on respective flanks, Martin was a great athlete capable of being a special talent as a back up ruck but more than anything the midfield of Moloney, Scully, Morton and Gysberts looked to form part of a generation that would take us somewhere. 2 years later and they are all gone.

Of course not but how about least talented player to get 6 years on an AFL list in the last 20 years if not ever.

What is Spencer growing into. He's had plenty of time to develop his body and it hasn't helped him. He's probably the least talented bloke to ever play AFL football in the history of the game. Gawn certainly needs games at Casey and at AFL level but injuries are a major issue. Same with Fitzpatrick, he needs time but he doesn't look like a natural AFL level talent. Pedersen and Sellar are only even back ups. The reason we'd change Clark is that he nearly was AA playing in the ruck. He's very skilled and fit. He enjoys the position. And as mentioned we could have 2 very decent replacements in the forward 50 in Dawes and Hogan. Now I think in a couple of years Gawn is hopefully a very good first ruck, Clark can be the guy to give him a chop out during quarters and Dawes and Hogan make a potent forward line with Clark. But I don't see how the thought of Clark being a full time ruckman can astound anyone.

Are you stuck in the 90's/early 2000's?

I agree, I think it's all of our concern. I think what we are doing is trying to keep the first group getting the ball but work on their disposal individually and as part of a system. McDonald and Garland are shut down defenders. Garland's skills are reasonable its just his brain that goes. I think its why Dunn and Watts are part of the backline. Grimes is similar, sometimes brilliant sometimes poor with disposal. Macdonald and Nicholson I think will be pushed out unless they improve. The next group are more frustrating. Strauss just doesn't find the ball enough down back but again he's never had a good run at it. Davey is finished. Trengove went backwards in terms of ball winning last year. I think Blease, Tapscott and Sylvia are about playing in our forward line and not having the fitness required. I'm really hoping those 3 show more this year but unless the team does I'm not sure they will individually.

Spencer is being kept for depth this year. In case Jamar went down we couldn't rely on Gawn due to injury so we needed Spencer. He'll need to improve dramatically to stay on the list. I have little confidence in Fitzy but as a ruck his speed might be more useful than first thought. We can reassess him in August. Gawn on the other hand has really only being set back by injury and has proven he is a beast at VFL and a prospect in some AFL he has played. 2 knee reco's is worrying. I'd say Gawn is still on track to be an above average starting ruck by the time he's 25 which is the age for ruckmen. The X factor is big Mitch Clark. With Dawes and Hogan we could transfer Clark to starting ruck and keep Pedersen as backup. At the end of this year the ruck situation will have to be assessed. Spencer and Fitzpatrick are playing for their careers and if they aren't up to it we will need replacements. Whether they be 18 year olds or mature players depends on who's available. Giles from GWS proved a bargain pick up 2 years ago and now Currie from North looks decent enough to at least be a good back up. Value is out there if we are clever.

The hard thing to understand is how guys from Ireland or who have never played the game get taught and end up good kicks whilst guys who have played their whole life but are bad kicks can't be made better. Classic example is Bartram but then again his degenerative knee issue at the end wouldn't of helped.

Ok I'll update again after training today: FB: Garland Frawley Terlich HB: Watts McDonald Dunn C: M. Jones Jones Grimes HF: Sylvia Dawes Blease FF: Howe Clark Byrnes Foll: Jamar McKenzie Rodan Int: Sellar, Jetta, Viney Sub: Toumpas Emer: Tapscott, Gillies, Pedersen I think we play Clark even underdone and try to stretch their defense it also gives us another target with Sellar and Dawes. Big Mitch can play mainly FF as long as the club are confident on Dawes. I don't like debuting guys as the sub but I think with Toumpas he'd be a really great addition to come in when the heat is out of the game a bit. I wanted to play Kent somewhere as well but I don't want too many debutantes. I don't really know what the plans are with the 6th and 7th defender but I've gone with Terlich and Jetta off the bench but the club could just name a 6th defender and use Grimes in a rotation. A lot of spots pick themselves and we don't so much have a selection headache from too many good players but a selection headache due to too many we aren't sure about.