DeeSpencer

Here's the problem. We move the ball incredibly quickly in terms of playing on and bad rapid fire handballs but at the same time our players move incredibly slowly. We need to move faster to get in position then moving the ball quickly will allow us to retain position. Defensively it's the same. Just giving the ball up and not moving quickly enough to get it back. But a perfect team will win clearances particularly centre clearances. Contested possession is just like tackles they are relevant to the amound of total possession you have. I bet come finals the teams that win contested possession, clearances and tackles will he the winners

How many games AFL/VFL has he played since 2008 grand final where he was nearly best on? That's over 4 seasons and I'd say he'd have been lucky to play more than 4 for Hawthorn and more than 14 for Box HIll.

It makes a heap of sense to play Jamar because each week he contests and can win his position. If we want to win games lets proceed with guys who can win the position. Note the GWS game where due to having half decent back up (and moderate opposition) Jamar completely dominates the last quarter leading to the ball leaving the midfield for us in unprecedented fashion. Spencer has done his job which is show that a guy on an AFL list for 6+ years can play VFL. He got his chance and he stunk on the weekend. Got killed in hitouts and around the ground by Warnock. A whopping 2 marks from a guy who stands at 204cm and 3 tackles for a guy who is apparently lightening quick for a big man and a good competitor at ground level. The future is Gawn and Fitzpatrick. Both are in form and available. Both can play forward with support from Dawes and ruck against good but not elite talent from gold coast in Zac Smith and Dixon who they will compete against for a decade if they are good enough.

I'm glad you aren't a selector. I'm not burning the true young players. I'm saying they played Sylvia behind the ball and he didn't get 30 touches like a good loose man he got 17 and didn't do anything particularly creative or brilliant until he kicked a selfish goal. Play him in the damn midfield or if he doesn't have the fitness HFF. If you are pleased with his effort you have incredibly low standards for Sylvia. Spencer on the other hand got murdered by Warnock who is a seasoned ruck how? He's played more VFL than AFL of late. Spencer is at a stage in his development that he can't afford to continually be physically dominated by Warnock who isn't even a strong ruck. Plus around the ground he made very little contests. At one stage deep forward he had every chance to bring the ball to ground but just couldn't do it. Sylvia looked at him and just said what are you doing! I don't understand how anyone can be pleased by Spencer because he chases a few blokes, none of who he caught anyway. Don't let Jamar's failing take away from the fact that he contests every ruck contest he is at and tries as hard as he can to at least break even. The fact he hasn't played more games by now indicates he just doesn't have the talent. Let's invest games in guys like Gawn and Fitzpatrick who might just have futures in this league. And we need to be realistic about Sylvia. He just doesn't have it in him to be a work horse and won't become the 30 touches a week inside mid with defensive work. But that doesn't mean when he gets a few cheap kicks in the backline and does very little with them we celebrate him. Our players efforts and intensity at the ball finally reached a reasonable standard. We shouldn't be heaping praise on them but telling them to demand that of the guy next to them for the entire rest of the season and to continue to demand improved running and skills. We took 6 weeks to get to where the bulldogs have been since round 1.

Wow that's entirely sensible. Get out! Except I'd give Kent a chance as sub (hopefully he lasts there until the 3rd quarter so he can come on as an impact player). He kicked one goal on the run and missed another after burning Kade Simpson. That's talent that we don't have a lot of. Either drop Bail instead or don't include Blease

Yep I agree. That said we had a hole in the list for a mature body ruck/forward. Dawes can't ruck. Clark shouldn't until he's got help in the forward line. Martin needed to go he was bit of a waste and Fitzpatrick and Gawn had injury worries. I say it a lot but in a better side you can carry a Pedersen I think. The one I have most trouble with is Gillies. Pedersen at least looks like he might have a crack and play a few different positions. Gillies just looks miles off AFL level.

Considering Kent got 3/4 last week I actually would like to sub him this week but when he comes on play him on a wing. He's not fit enough to play as a good small forward in this side. And after watching Bail/Blease/Tapscott/Byrnes and Davey I'm not convinced anyone is. Let's just limit him so we can enjoy what he does produce. Especially if they bring Toumpas and/or Blease back one of them has to be sub. The other big issue is talls. Dawes is a lock for CHF even if he's only structural. Spencer/Gawn/Jamar fight it out for first ruck I'd go for Gawn. Gawn and Fitzpatrick fight it out for backup I'd go for Fitzy. No point playing 2 rucks and Fitzy and an underdone Dawes. Just 3 big blokes and Howe can do the job as third tall (but not second tall). The midfield is shuffling deck chairs. All of Bail/Trengove/McKenzie come under fire. Down back its McDonald for Sellar or not. 50/50 call but I'd give Sellar his chance. The only other one is do we bring Jetta back and/or keep Strauss or Nicholson. Considering their limitations I'd say Strauss and Nicholson played as expected. Strauss clean with it and in good positions but sometimes without impact and not getting enough ball. Nicholson running around like a headless chook and fumbling but still having that raw speed that we'd love if we ever got him right. Might be worth trying him as a forward again just using his speed and endurance. Can't kick worse than Bail.

GWS and Gold Coast certainly weren't meant to be this bad. I bet the league wanted them to get much more experienced talent and then supplement it with the best kids. Not go all out on kids! The other effect I think is the league didn't realize the potential difference in a bad team like Melbourne getting picks shuffled back so far in drafts with 10 of the top 40 picks already missing. The closer you are to pick 1 in those drafts the more harm you likely take because you usually deserve stars but when you pick at pick 4 they are all gone. Same with trading pick 12 for Clark. Good move but we were bad enough to earn a top 5 talent I'm truth. That said if we didn't stuff all the drafts and development before the expansion we'd be going nicely now

Out: spencer (never again), bail (can't kick), McDonald (see bail), Nicholson (see bail), grimes In: Fitzpatrick, Dawes, Sellar, Jetta, Toumpas Dawes is our best big forward available. Gawn our best Ruck and Fitzy our best back up man. Lets play them as such! I like Jetta's toughness and his direct ball usage. Get him in. It's way overdue to swap McDonald for Sellar. It's short term but worth it. The last midfield spots are near on impossible. I don't actually want to play Toumpas but who else do we have? Do we stick with Mckenzie or Nicholson or neither?

Considering we will lose regardless I'd rather lose whilst still playing a structure with traditional sized players. I'd have kept Pedersen. If anything it would free up Howe or Tapscott to get a reasonable sized opponent.

so should Sydney give back mcglynn and Kennedy? We certainly don't need any more cast aways especially old ones but a midfielder entering his prime who can play I'd take for sure

Basic ball movement drills executed under pressure, repeat time and time again and we might get somewhere. Problem is the guys putting on pressure in these drills are the same ones who can't keep up with their opponents come match day.

There are roughly 8-10 midfield positions open at Melbourne every week! Sylvia is still not running hard enough or winning contested ball well enough to be cemented in the worst midfield in the league. He's a flanker with nice ability to get up the ground and turn back. Of course he kicks goals, thats what happens when you burn 4 open team mates and wheel on to your left from 50 out. It's all continued poor discipline and team footy.

Let those others be combinations of Gawn/Clark/Pedersen even. But not Spencer. We lament Jamar's effective hitouts but they still are much better than Warnock giving Carlton mids silver service.

How can anyone really be pleased with Sylvia? He butchered the ball. Didn't get a kick up forward then went loose in defence and hardly starred. And please Spencer? What a shambles of a football. He provides nothing of use. The one time he wins a clear hit out he puts it straight down Garletts throat leading to a Murphy goal. He could be better than Jamar at centre bounces but is horribly out matched by anyone around the ground. I'd never play him again it devalues the jumper for someone to show such little aggression or spirit. A few chases for the sake of it but really whats the good.

I feel our entire team have to play like midfielders because the ball is constantly turned over. How many times do we concede easy goals when our defenders are caught out of position after an inexplicable turn over. The only thing more demoralising than playing in our backline would be playing in our forward line.

We stacked this team with run and pace and all we ended up doing was trying to beat Carlton at their own super fast around the boundary plan. Maybe just for once if we actually held the ball up, pushed back off the mark and demanded people run to get the ball it might work better. That and stop kicking it long to players out of position. I'm totally bewilded by Jake Spencer as well. The only time you feel like he's worth something is when he's failing to chase down a speedy player. You say thanks for trying. But how about try and jump and win a hit out or run around the ground and get a mark. Even better just bring the ball to ground once when you are playing full forward. Who knows what we were thinking keeping a list spot open for this guy when Jack Hannath was available. Damn I'd leave the spot empty so at least today we could've developed Fitzy and Gawn as a ruck-forward backups and had them learn something. Positives I guess were Dunny did a nice job. Problem is if we use him as a tagger then we get rid of McKenzie and have one less mid. And Tapscott seems to be better using his hardness and getting more of the ball. It's a gradual build and he's yet to display any considerable midfield ability. But considering how the other small forwards went today I'd say he did well.

Why would that make any difference between his games up until 3/4 time against GWS and since. What about Terlich, he's a bit older but can't be fully developed physically and yeah he makes the odd mistake but largely he's having a crack. Seems we can develop more than half a defense to have a crack but when the ball goes up in the midfield which is an even contest every time the only one who looks to have any semblance of interest is Nathan Jones.

The problem is years of neglectful recruiting and development has made us bad. And nothing since Neeld has taken over has suggested to me he knows how to make them better. We continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Jake Spencer hasn't got any better in 4 years. Tom McDonalds confidence and kicking with the ball just gets worse. Dan Nicholson continues to fumble. Worse the players continue to play on at stupid times and do things like kick into the mark. You'd think by now coaches would've stamped some of that out.

in defense of neeld Carlton have done the same thing but their guy is local.That said I agree. First gamers have a habit of inspiring and playing well. Hence the first kick goal club. But knowing us kent is likely to get on early enough and can hopefully make an impact.

Yep I agree. Guys with more time/maturity like Blease and Strauss it makes sense to play in the midfield at Casey. Same with Toumpas because he's pretty ready. But Kent and Taggert have a while to go so even at VFL need time. I certainly agree with the theory at AFL level that you bring youngsters in through the flanks because they just don't have the fitness base or strong bodies for long period in the middle.

I'm impressed you remember who the Daniher cheerleaders are. Sometimes I blame Daniher for the disaster we are in but I also think when he left after 2007 there was enough on the list that if we got some drafts right in 07/08/09 we would've been out of the major troubles by now. But when I look back I think it might not have been Daniher's coaching that was the problem or even the way he stocked the list in 2005/2006 with guys like Pickett for the pursuit of a flag. Really I think the problem (which Daniher is partly responsible for even though we were flat broke and couldn't afford it) is that we completely missed the mid 2000's football department arms race lead by teams like Collingwood, West Coast and Hawthorn. Only this year am I happy we have fitness guys in place, recruiters in place, development coaches in place etc. We still have to refine who those people are - I think our development coaches need reviewing and obviously our sports science and medical team are getting reviewed through this Dank problem. But we can't catch up on field with the rest of the teams if we haven't caught up off the field.

I keep thinking of how some of his most promising footy was a brief run of games off half back in 2011 I think. Pace and straight running is often easier from behind the ball. And you just can't give up in the backline. Besides that I agree deep forward might be a fairer start for him and let him build fitness in the seniors before playing him up the ground. I certainly agree with putting him right in the guts for Casey.

Disagree with Davis. There were a few (myself included) last year who questioned his retainment on the senior list but most were willing to keep him. He's put runs of decent VFL form together before and got close to games as an emergency. Last year was his second year so the equivalent players are Tynan and Taggert. Taggert is building VFL form and not getting negative press on here. Tynan is a bit off seemingly struggle to adjust his game with increased size he put on and he's copping plenty of heat. The problem with Davis is he has positive attributes but they aren't ones that coincide with being in the AFL team due to his negative attributes. Positive - Finds the footy - when played up the ground at Casey he can regularly get 20+ touches - Runs with the ball - Strong Negatives - Kicking - Defensive work still needs improving - Don't think the fitness is there, remember he had a thyroid condition at one stage We play him now and he looks like Gillies and gets belted. We fix his kicking we have a player. We continue to build his defending as his body improves and gets stronger and fitter and we have a player. I'd say really he just needs to show he's a better prospect than Gillies and he's on the list for next year and heading towards being able to compete at AFL level.

Only in the Australian cricket team and at Melbourne is dropping players a sign of messing with their confidence. I fully believe if McDonald has another bad game we drop him for Sellar and let him get confidence in the reserves playing for a strong Casey line up. Now in and out week after week screws with players but a drop, return to form in the reserves then back to the seniors to show off their improvements is only a good thing. Especially when a player is on a hiding to nothing playing off an interrupted preseason in a rubbish team!