DeeSpencer

Betts can put on forward pressure but I haven't seen him do it for a full season, he seems more of a lead and goal type player. He'd be handy but I can't see him leaving Carlton and still being a good price. I'd look to the draft more than anything for a small forward. They can come in and play quickly if fit. I agree its an area of need for our list.

From my understanding he was staying in NZ for most of the time. I presume he might come over for a block of training at some stage and maybe play VFL (that does make sense) but the main plan is to pay him to develop as an athlete first and see how he goes. As for this VFL match it sounds like Clark and Trengove are aiming for it (but the week after might be more reasonable) and if he doesn't play this week that Dawes would be odds on to feature in it possibly with a few others trying to get some footy into them before round 1.

I'm pretty sure what the OP means is that Todd Viney has fathered both these boys and therefore we actually had the choice and did we pick the right one. That's what you meant right? Ridiculous.

Would love to see Dawes, Viney and McDonald return. Lets hope and see, I guess. If Dawes gets up to play I'd rest Hogan and go with Dawes, Sellar and Pedersen and see if the three can work in tandem.

Anything from the match review panel regarding Kosi's hit on Garland. He looked to line him up very late to me.

I agree. But until we've seen results we can't predict any success. I'm not saying throw out the Neeld regime because they haven't had a chance but the Neeld regime would be miracle workers to win a premiership because they came into such a disadvantaged club and list. I'd say one thing I'm not happy about is that we have an amazing opportunity to draft talent last year - 3 first round picks and Viney as a F+S and we have Todd Viney as our head recruiter. A guy who's never done it before. Now maybe we did the best we could trying to find someone and waiting for Taylor this year from Collingwood but to me it didn't make a lot of sense. Now I'm happy with the way we used those picks but the end doesn't justify the means necessarily.

Extreme midfield quality and depth is what makes an average team actually a very very good one. They had every position in the midfield covered and spare and how they got them was very clever and again relates to my point on development. Goodes, O' Keefe, Bolton and McVeigh were there from the first premiership. McVeigh is a complete and hard running midfielder, Goodes is a freak X factor player. Bolton is Bolton. O'Keefe they reconfigured into a midfielder but did it incredibly well. Then they got: Josh Kennedy (traded with McGlynn for 2/3rd round pick I think)- clearance freak who they cleverly traded for just when Hawthorn were short sighted enough to give him away. Shane Mumford, again same as Kennedy target a quality player who can't get a game and then develop them Kieran Jack - all around midfielder who they developed from their zone selection Hannebery (2nd round pick)- second round draft choice who could always run all day and is tough as nails and any doubts over his kicking were rectified surely by Sydney's coaching. Jetta - the outside speed they needed Plus they were unlucky but still had Rohan if he wasn't injured. Pretty much I think what they did was as quick as possible bring in a wonderful amount of quality to their midfield to fill the holes left by the likes of Kirk and Jolly. From then they just gave games to consistent performers (some old, some new)- Richards, Grundy, Mattner, Shaw, Smith down back, Pyke, LRT, Bird, McGlynn and others forward. Now I bet we've got a spine of decent players and we can fill in the flanks with reasonable types, but I'm yet to see anything to prove we've got any hope in hell of developing guys good enough to go deep into September in the furnace that is the midfield. Since 2003 - McLean, Syvlia, Jones, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Morton, Grimes, Maric, Strauss, Blease - all first or early second round draft picks and as much as I love Jonesy there isn't one Patrick Dangerfield, Nat fyfe, Dayne Beams, Dan Hannebery or even a Luke Shuey or Scott Selwood among them. How can you justify that, its an outrage.

Here's the first of many many problems. Name one Melbourne players since 2004 who's developed nicely. Nath Jones might be an example, sure it took him a while but he eventually has gone from kid to respected AFL performer. Frawley as well. Tom McDonald is coming along very nicely but isn't at the level where you'd say his a complete package. Jamar improved over the course of a decade. What I'm saying is wheres the evidence we have any idea how to develop footballers yet alone a team. Too many of our guys come in, play some nice football and then find a comfort level. Sylvia is the chief offender but there are plenty of others. Even Grimes looked like a star at half back and now due to necessity he looks like another midfield plodder. You've used the example of Dunn who's played half a season of ok football. Same goes for Blease. What about Howe how come he can't get 20 touches a week and 7 or so marks and actually be a beautiful dangerous linking half forward with the ability to run back inside fifty and score. Col Garland went from great prospect to back pocket who does a nice job defensively but isn't creative attackingly and throws in a brain fade almost every match. It's rediculous that we are talking up Kent over Tapscott. Tapscott should be a much fitter, stronger and more dangerous forward much more equipted at playing attacking and defensive football but instead is just another name of the list and now we hope for Kent to be some sort of star. Can we win a premiership with this current list (+/- the usual pick ups along the way), well possibly. But I need to think for some reason Viney becomes the Sam Mitchell or Joel Selwood of his football generation and Toumpas becomes the Nick Dal Santo. With the way we develop a team and players I think more likely in a decade we'll be ruing why Viney is a mid level Brock McLean type and Toumpas is a Travis Johnstone.

We need a small forward to replace Davey. Byrnes and Blease are more natural half forward flankers same as Kent. The problem is dangerous small forwards don't grow on trees. Saad is a nice type but Milera and Dennis Lane don't scare decent defenders. I hope we get one in the draft at some point. However our current forward line (at full strength) can be very effective if we get some proper delivery which means attacking ball movement from half back and through the midfield and creating turnovers. In some way its the forward lines fault for not getting enough forward pressure on to get repeat entries. In others if our half backs and midfielders cover the outlets its makes it easier for our forwards to get pressure on. We're a systemically bad team. Bringing in a few more forwards will help, just as bolstering the competition for defenders will help, but we are still a long way from just having an isolated problem.

That was a 4+ goal breeze especially in the first half. We lost it in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd quarter not just the second. I can't believe people fall for the one bad quarter dribble.

Last year he just had to get fit and he'd get a game. This year I hope Taggert, Matt Jones, Magner, Couch, Evans and a few others are at least competing for the midfield spots even if there are no stars in the group.

Concerned about the quality of ball movement and lack of forward and midfield pressure. But wasn't completely hopeless effort. St Kilda did play Sydney last week whilst we didn't have a game and our kids played in renmark. For example Magner found more footy as he's had the extra game. One thing is for sure I'm so sick of Joel macdonald he is worse than useless. Same goes for Aaron davey. Pathetic footballer. Like the cameo from tapscott at the start of the last quarter. Lifted the team by hitting in hard. People are being stupidly harsh on hogan. He's just turned 18 and playing in a battling forward line. And I think pedersen and sellar will both play round 1 alongside Dawes and be effective. Gillies battled on riewoldt but otherwise is ok. Terlich looks the goods. Matt jones looks like he'll need another preseason but isn't bad. People are also harsh on toumpas. He's not a miracle worker and he's smart enough to hold the footy instead of blazing to a non existent forward line. He remains all class but will take time to develop into a consistent performer.

Dawes certainly hasn't had little to know preseason. He was flying a few weeks ago and looked fitter than ever. He played a game without trouble and now is getting managed through it. If he resumes without further drama he will be fit enough. I think Trengove will have to be managed and probably won't be at full fitness when he resumed. Clark certainly won't be but the hope is he's sitting in the goal square for a lot of the game.

Viney didn't train much if at all on Wednesday. Maybe just soreness or we might be taking him easy which I'm fine with. Dawes I presume this troublesome calf isn't ready yet but hopefully it's better soon. Don't we have a game next week as well?

The whole thing is a disgrace. How on earth Carlton nearly ended up broke with these dollars coming in. And I bet with all those pubs they snapped up that collingwood are probably getting more than this list leads on. It would be great to see rich clubs like collingwood say we must get away from this money that is drained from our poor supporters!

Just be careful. The coaches aren't complaining because their game plans are ruined but because they fear players careers will be ruined. They might not change their plans one bit. If someone has a reasonable suggestion about how you make Afl players work less hard but still win games then let me no. I don't think a coach will suddenly say its ok guys save your energy we aren't worried about forward pressure any more. Also as a tactic if we are bottom 4 this year do we limit ourselves to 80 rotations per game in the last 5 or so weeks to get an advantage?

Clark, Trengove and Gawn back in the main group! Trengove did maybe first half, Clark a bit more then they went behind the far goals. Gawn stayed in main training. Didn't see Clisby, Kent or Mcdonald but they might have being doing rehab. Bail did running only. Sylvia just some laps. Viney didn't train for long either. No Dawes. Just doing usual warm ups and drills mainly today. Great to see Mitch Clark up and about. Again I was a bit disappointed by the skill execution especially early. Seems like the players weren't 100% switched on. A group of 6 got taken away at one stage for some tackle training. Sensible stuff with the coach (?tackling coach) being very specific and focussing on watching the feet and then pinning an opponent with your shoulders by bending your back and getting lower. Worked with Dom Barry in particular to point out how much stronger your tackle is if you bend your back and get your shoulder into and opponent and really wrap them up instead of just using your arms!

We all want footy played the traditional way but you only have to look at Melbourne in games where we play teams with proper defenses to work out footy is a lot harder that way. Barcelona and Spain and even Brisbane Roar have shown you can win playing the beautiful game in soccer so maybe it will get around to it one day. Geelong played a very attractive brand of footy particularly from 07 to 09 so it can be done.

Who hear plays local footy? Who complained in 2008 that 80 interchanges wasn't enough? The game will survive the interchange limitations but I agree at some stage we need to look at how we get players not to run so hard without them being completely fatigued as the answer. One consideration is with 18 teams we've spread the talent too thin and thus given athletes a chance over footballers

You'd be mad to play both because I'm yet to see Spencer be better than Jamar in the ruck (although the Russian is not exactly a star) and Spencer up forward is just a shambles so really it would be the the equivalent of being one man short. At the moment I think Pedersen and Sellar are in a battle for the ruck forward spot and I think Pedersen might still be ahead due to the fact he's trained all preseason for that spot I think he'll need to show something in the next 2 matches to solidify his position.

Sellar didn't have a full preseason at AFL level and whilst he kept in shape and trained at Sanfl level it might be the extra difference. I still think he's at his best as a gorilla keeper defender with good size and skill. However he provides another option with Pedersen for back up ruck so the more competition the better.

Looks like Magner and Jetta put their names forward with some disposal, whilst up forward Davey (3 goals), Kent (2 goals) and Tapscott (1 goal, 8 tackles all contributed. Of course without being at the game it's hard to judge all of them but let's see who gets a run in the next 2 weeks!

Considering our team only consists of Magner, Sellar, Davey and Terlich I think we are going ok. Imagine if we put 22 on the park. (Commentary joke for those not paying attention). Goal to Evans! The lack of uncontested possessions seems disappointing although kicking with a 2 goal breeze you'd expect us to play more direct and Port to share the ball more.

Why should we cap spending? And if we do that where doesIt stop. I want the AfL to be the best it can be which means investing in football departments. Richmond and freo havent had success and Carlton haven't had some for a while but have continued to grow. Equal billing should be able to happen. Even if the fixture isn't commercially fair in terms of dollars In you could at least it more equal in exposure. I'd start with giving every team at least 2 Friday night and 4 Saturday night games per season

Oh yeah because the club hasn't done enough already.What about all the other kids who didn't lose their jumper, what do they get?