Dr. Gonzo

People yell at the footy. Get over it.

We did NOT tank for two years. There was one game the coaches tried to lose and that was against Richmond and we were still in front when the siren went. We were rubbish in 2008 we didn't tank. Watts will make it once he gets a couple more pre-seasons under his belt to build his fitness and strength. He has only had one full pre-season and is only just turned 21. Trengove has to be carrying an injury, I can't believe he is as poor as he has been playing considering what he has shown in his first couple of years. The kid will be a gun in the Hodge/Bartel mould. Could not give one stuff about the other scumbag. But we have the compo picks this year which looks like it will get us a top 3 player plus Viney and another top 20 picks. We have undertaken one of the biggest rebuilds/lists turnovers ever seen and are still yet to come out the other side. Our patience will be tested but I think the signs are there and Neeld is the exact kind of coach we need.

Yep was a very good effort - now let's see them back that up next week and the week after and the week after. That's the issue with MFC sides over the years they do that for one week then think they've done enough and drop off again. That is the minimum standard, we shouldn't have to praise them just for having a dip - the next step is to do that on a consistent basis and get some wins on the board.

Yep I agree with that and Watts definitely needs to lift his fitness, his attack on the ball has been very good at times this year and other times not so good - he has to realise he can't choose when he wants to go, he just has to do it every time. I am confident the penny will drop eventually and when it does he will be a genuine gun. He was poor last night but for skinny tall players it wasn't a great night (look how Riewoldt and to a lesser extent Goddard went not withstanding Jordie's great effort in quelling him). It wouldn't surprise me if he is sent back to Casey for a bit and I wouldn't necessarily complain but you can't make someone "go harder" endurance wise if they don't have the fitness base. Remember he has only really done 1 full pre-season so whether he is dropped or not I don't see him improving that this year.

The thing is you can't judge kids on a game by game basis - you leave them in the side for 4-6 weeks and judge them over the whole period. You can't expect 20 year olds to be dominating week in, week out in a bottom 3-4 side. Same deal with guys like Morton if you put him in the senior side you can't drop him after only one or two games because he didn't set the world on fire. It gives them time to find their place in the side, get used to the structures etc on game day and won't have them hesitate with every possession because they're worried they'll be dropped if they make a mistake.

Cliff notes?

I think you misunderstand - I didn't want to trade him because he was rubbish, it's quite the opposite. Because he had a decent year when thrown into the first ruck role other clubs may have been prepared to offer something half decent for him. You can't go to the trade table with Jamie Bennell or Nev Jetta and expect to get anything other than a late 4th round pick, that is if the other clubs don't laugh you out of the building first. Martin showed something and it seemed like he was getting more praise from external sources than his form (while good) seemed to warrant. Considering our ruck stocks I thought we should have tried to trade one of him or Jamar (especially after Jamar's AA in 2010). Having said all that I can't see Martin improving much beyond what he showed last year - he seems destiend to spend his career going back and forth from the seniors to reserves. He may prove me wrong but I just see too much uncoordination and lack of footy smarts.

I blame Jack Watts for this post. I blame him for myki pink shirts and popped collars mid-strength beer at the footy

Haha just saw that then watching the replay - definitely said "get Moloney off the f*ing ground NOW!!!" and I'm guessing it was after he missed that sitter of a goal when he had a free Dunn over the top? Great to see some real passion and intensity from the coach after having Bailey looking like a corpse up there for 4 years.

I thought we should have tried to trade Martin out last year - you buy low and sell high and Martin's value peaked last year.

Watts had a very bad game tonight but I don't think you can crucify him off the back of one poor game. OK he hasn't dominated this year but he has been OK. Look at Tom McDonald last week everyone wanted him dropped then he comes out tonight and gives Riewoldt a bath. Watts has been around a couple of years now but you can't have these kids in and out of the side like yo-yo's and you can't drop them after one poor performance. You need to give them their chance to redeem themselves and not second guess every decision because they're afraid of being dropped again once they come back. Same with guys like Morton, you need to play them for 6-8 weeks even if they're not playing well to get some confidence and rhythm going. If after that time they're still no good then they need to go to Casey or perhaps strike a line through them. On Dunn, this is the second week in a row he has been sent to the oppositions key defensive playmaker after they have torn us up in the first quarter and he has shut them down. Granted he needs to make them accountable also and hurt them the other way but I think he has been OK. It was a mistake subbing him off especially straight after that goal as he was shutting down Fisher and another goal would've seen Fisher more worried about Dunn that setting up the play. For mine I would have IN: Clark, Frawley, Petterd OUT: Sellar, Macdonald, not sure who here perhaps Davey or Tapscott I'd also consider dropping Jamar for Martin or Fitzpatrick. Not a huge fan of Martin and unsure if Fitzpatrick is up to it (yet) but Jamar at the moment gives us nothing. He apparently got 55 hit outs tonight but I didn't see many that set up the play for us. There not much use if they just get tapped straight down to his feet and he gives us nothing around the ground. I thought it was emblematic of where he's at that in the 3rd there was a boundary throw-in deep in our forward pocket and we didn't have a ruckman to contest. Despite this we won the contest and kicked a goal. So what use are our ruckman for us at the moment anyway, we'd be better off just having an extra midfielder and trying to shark the opposition ruckman.

That was a symptom not the cause - has happened for as long as I've been supporting the Demons even during the Northey years we had massive mid-season slumps that costs us the double chance. 2006 we would have finished top 4 but we lost to Carlton (who only won 3 games) twice. 2004 we were on top of the ladder after round 18 then lost to the Blues (again) at Princes Park in another year when they were rubbish. This getting ahead of ourselves and falling in a heap against rubbish and not-so-rubbish teams because we feel like we've done the hard yards is symptomatic of the culture that DL has discussed above. We need hard bastards from outside the club to show us that you don't relax until the siren goes and you've achieved nothing til you've got the premiership cup.

Haha yeah gave me a laugh as well. WTF? Care to explain doctor? From one doctor to another you really shouldn't be encouraging that type of language, might offend the little kiddies!

You're not wrong about most of what you have written, however what the supporters were happy with tonight was the effort of the team and not rolling over when challenged. We played out the game which is what we have been asking for all year. Now granted this shouldn't be something extraordinary to be applauded, it should be the norm - but baby steps.

He'll come good, I'm not worried about him at all - as has been stated he must be carrying something, perhaps they need to rest him for a couple of weeks coming in to this horror stretch of games. Get him right for the second half of the season when we have a good chance to knock off a number of sides.

I think they need to take the centring option when it is on - you can't have everyone down the line trying to create contests - if the ball is turned over the opposition will have the whole corridor and other side of the ground to split us open.

Good post DL - I've raised this issue before when talking about our culture. In the history of our club we have been a "successful team" for one brief period - 1939-1964. This was under the leadership of Checker Hughes who as you said came from the Tigers and had to beat the Fuschias out of us to get us playing like Demons. This was carried on by Norm Smith who was tutored under Hughes and came from "the other side of the river" in Northcote. We sacked Smith for political reasons and immediately went back to our Fuschia ways. The only other period since we have had any semblance of "toughness" about us was during the Northey years, another import from Richmond who was tutored by Tommy Hafey. Other than this period (which saw us win 10 of our 12 flags) we have been quite rubbish. Compare that to most other teams except Footscray and St. Kilda (who by the way have only won one flag each) and you can see that our culture is seriously sick. Compare us to even teams like the Pies who have only won 2 flags since 1958. Even though they didn't achieve the ultimate success they did make many GF's during this period (hence the Colliwobbles) and won more than their fair share of H&A games. Do you think when Eddie says things publicly like "this isn't Melbourne where you can just walk in and take our players" it is just an off-the-cuff remark? Understanding how we are perceived by the wider football community is key to understanding how we might be able to fix our "culture". It's like addiction, the first step is admitting you have a problem. You can't choose your relatives or your football team. Like most of us we are born into this for better or worse. I will never regret barracking for the Demons but sometimes I just wish they didn't break my heart on such a consistent basis.

The question then is why? Did we not think it worthwhile this season when every other club has launched ads/had membership drives on SEN?

Where we are at the moment I would definitely not be looking at getting a 17yo this year. Last year was fair enough to have a crack but we need kids who can come in to the team ASAP and start getting some competitiveness out on the field. To get a 17yo this year we would basically have to give up pick 4 and who is to say there would be much difference between pick 4 this year and pick1/2 next year especially when a 17yo kid's value can change dramatically over the course of a year. Where was Watts rated in 2007? I can't really see any bidding for these this year unless they want to trade a decent player to GWS because most of the teams with the picks GWS would want will not see it as worth trading it away.

Yeah I haven't seen or heard any ads or drives either like other clubs have had but maybe I missed it?

If it's less than $50 I don't want to know about it.

Is this serious? I can't believe we have committed to a teenager two years before draft day who has chronic OP issues and may never even play a game! This club is a joke, no wonder we are rubbish and havne't won anything for 40+ years!!! We might as well close up shop and relocate to New Zealand to put us all out of our misery. NB. This is a tongue in cheek post in complete bad taste. Please take a moment to breathe in deeply before the bile starts to rise and you unleash your fury on the interwebs.

At the risk of grinding your gears on two separate threads today, this is why it wouldn't biother me at this stage if we happened to finish last this year considering what we theoretically have to gain. I'm not necessarily saying tank and I don't think we will finish last but if we did it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. We would then have pick 1, 2, 12(ish) & Viney. Won't happen but I'm not gonna slit my wrists if it does.

That last paragraph was clearly tongue-in-cheek (hence the smiley demon) - sorry if it offended anyone but I thought it was pretty obvious.

It's not a matter of wanting to join - it's a matter of what's best for the MFC. Handing over $600 per year to the MCC with a token $60 to MFC when you could buy a Premium MFC Membership with that $600 is robbing our club of potential revenue which could be invested into our team/club to ensure it's off field survival and on-field competitiveness. I know there are a number of MCC who buy MFC memberships also but not nearly enough. You can't claim you are an MFC SUPPORTER if you do not buy an MFC Membership to SUPPORT the club. This goes for AFL Members with club support also although at least the club gets about $150 out of that but it still is nowhere near the same as getting $500+ for a Premium Membership (which is what the AFL Membership costs). Yes the MCC has agreed to hand over some extra cash but it is still not the same as if all our MCC based followers joined up and supported the MFC. It is also discretionary and ould change depending on the whim of the MCC. So come on all you toffs. If you want to claim to be an MFC SUPPORTER then hand over your (not very) hard-earned cash that you got from playing the stock and derivatives markets and buy an MFC Premium Membership. It won't cost you much more than the cost of filling up your Range Rovers for a month.