BangkokDemon

Maybe he was "tanking"???

I was there and plan to be there again too...

I want all of that and more. But, the one BIG thing I want is a Flag !! 2014 would be nice symmetrically - being 50 years from the last one. However, I am a patient man...as long as it happens before I am watching matches once again coached by Norm Smith in the MCG in the sky...

I just re-read your post. What you say is actually the problem. Forever and a day the players have been let off lightly. In fact the whole club has been let off lightly. We have been too "nice", for too long. We have had the best of the draft for the last few years, but we haven't been able to do much with it - so far. If we had chosen Natanui over Jack Watts, woud he have become the force he is at the Eagles? I doubt it. We would have made excuses and said things like "we don't want to rush it" and unfortunately that would have been the only option had. We didn't (and still don't) have A class players to pay along side. Many of our older more mature players, were lazy and one dimensional. They had never been taught how to defend - even in the backline. So when Neeld came along with his strong belief in defensive to be offensive style of play these older guys (with a couple of exceptions) had trouble doing that. They were used to giving us fans a hard-on one week with no punishment the following week should they not do it again. I think Colin Sylvia is guilty of this - so was Moloney but you can go back to the days of Robbo, Yze, Bruce and so on to find others who perpetuated this culture in the club. Neeld is trying to weed out players who continue along these lines. If we were still under the coaching of someone like Bailey, I might agree the situation is desperate. But we now have a coach who has a plan. It is also obvious some players cannot cope with what the coahes are asking them to do. And, want they are asking is no more than sides such as Hawthorn, Geelong and others in the top echelon serve up, week after week.

Okay then, what's the choice ? Do we just close up shop? I don't want to do that - do you ? You can't change the past. But at this stage changing coaches would do little more than speed up the demise of a great club. We signed him for more than one year - because there was a realization of those in the decision making process that a strong man with unwavering conviction in what they were doing was the only answer. I know we disagree but I think Mark Neeld has shown these qualities this year and has a proper plan as to what is required. It is is not pretty - but unless we want to go on as we have for far too long, nearly there, what's the choice? I say stick with the plan.

I don't agree. The problem preceded him. The team tried to play as a topside would - at least in the first qtr - they are just not good enough. I haven;t seen them a lot this year (even Australia Network have not wanted us on their channel - but have seen tonight) Stop blaming Neeld for the inadequacies he and the rest of the coaches inherited. If we are still as bad at this time next year, then it might be different.

He deservedly won the B&F in 2011. We are just about to finish 2012.

I don't think we got the "wrong" coach for where the club was at a year ago and for what needed to be done to a real basket case. This has sure been a horrible year in terms of games won, but there's more to it than that. If MM does take over the Blues it is quite possible they will do very well almost immediately. But their window is fast closing where ours should be opening. We had a kindergarten teacher in Bailey who stayed 2 years too long. Now we have a primary school teacher - just what we need - as we learn how to get into the big game. The test will come in about 2 years time when our coach will need to deliver BIG time. MM took 7 years with the Maggies. He would have needed the same with us - at least. Would he have been prepared to do all those hard things Neeld is prepared to do ? Would he have been so honest about why Moloney is not adjusting ? Would he have been open enough to say so many other things which have needed to be said for so many years - but haven't ? I have a feeling we would not have.

I think you could be right in saying his days with the Maggies are coming to an end. Being with Neeld and Brown might help him, but will he help us, or just crack the s**ts when things don't go his way. He's not another Tony Lockett who was so good you could forgive him. He's not even in Barry Hall's class either. Right now he's playing like a big sookie baby. Is that the sort of "big body" we need? Think I'd prefer Leigh Brown to don the boots instead.

But that was last year. We don't need a prima dona - which is how he has been recently. We need more team players not soldiers of fortune.

Agree 100%. It's almost like some posters here want to go back to the time when we were little more than a "gentleman's club" for public schoolboys who played "footy" on the weekends in winter and tennis or cricket in summer. AFL is big business - albeit in a fairly small pond. And, like in any business environment life is tough. But, if we were to go back to our glory days, when people like Brian Dixon was an amateur and played for a new fridge or other household appliance in lieu of player payments, so should all the other clubs too. Back then it was simple. No KPI's; no beep tests; no hi level data analysis of player performance and not much training either. That's why players are being shown up for what they are. I'm as sorry as anyone else to see Bard Green retire. I'm also sad to see that Beemer is struggling when put under the spotlight. In days gone by maybe these guys could have been 350+ game players. Maybe even if we had kept with Bailey they could hide - like a several of the 2000 GF group did during the last ND years and at first under DB. But, we are trying to bury all that and move up to the level of Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood - where this sort of thing is normal. We will not develop a winning culture by being sentimental when it comes to issues like this. Neeld might not get us there - but let's give him our support...because, I don't like the alternative.

Isn't what he said being "over analyzed" by this thread ? Brad is a very decent person. He will always be remembered as a real club champion and more - a real "club man". We all know he was upset by what happened to J Mac and Bailey. (If you want another : why didn't he - he didn't mention J.Mac in among those great players and friends...). So, perhaps he is torn a little inside - wouldn't you be ? But, to me he has been able to do what J.Mac or Cam Bruce could not - go out (publicly at least) on his own terms. Thank you Brad.

I'll let you in on a little secret. Because the game was not on the Australia Network here in Bangkok until 9pm (midnight Melb time) and I already knew the result, rather than stay up until midnight, we went to bed. A 5:30am 10km run before the Bangkok heat kicked in was far more rewarding. Like you, although I am full of hope and "eternal" optimism, I too will "believe it, when I see it". There is nothing any of us can do for now. Let them get on with the job and I will get on with my life.

I was there last century 1964. So I guess I could be classed as an "old time followed For what it's worth I believe this "build" under Neeld is the right thing for us at this point in time. I've waited 48 years...another couple of years won't hurt if it brings home the bacon. If it doesn't as Mark Neeld has said "we won't die not knowing". Stay the course fellow supporters we've not even finished the first quarter.

So why did you start this thread, if you are prepared to wait until this time next year? Every supporter is concerned about our lack of success this year. But, I doubt any of us really understood just what a mess we were in regards to the players coaching staff and facilities. Many seemed to think that the "magic wand" waved over the club by Jimmy and co would bring us immediate success. That was just the start.

Correct! The duck I see in front of me has finally woken up from nearly 50 years of "mediocraty" and realized that unless he gets a move on and changes into something else he'll soon be hanging at the front of the Chinese Restaurant. So, when we finally have a chance of avoiding being part of a Chinese banquet, you want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" ? I prefer that expression rather than yours..."quack, quack" !!

I get really frustrated by people looking for a quick fix. We have tried that many times before and it always ended up in tears. For those who think we did better under Bailey they are obviously easily satisfied. As one poster pointed out as Cam Mooney said, if we had kept with him we probably would have won another 8 games this year, next year and the one after...but by then the club would have sunk into oblivion and probably receivership which would have forced a merger or worse. This is a desperate time, in spite of our reasonable financial position right now. We don't have the cattle on the park to get us where we "need" to be - it has moved on from where we "want" to be. Our recruiting both at draft and "experienced" player levels at the end of this season is vital. Vital, not so we supporters can walk into the office on Monday morning next year and know that we are not having to fend off the "hopeless" mantle we have. But more so the club is set up to make a proper tilt not just at winning a few games each year (and being boys who tried - and failed), but also those flags we so desperately have been missing. When I started following Melbourne in the late 50s (in last century's, VFL comp), Hawthorn had still not won a flag. Nor, had North Melbourne or even St.Kilda. And back then, we were the only "serious" contenders to Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon as a competition powerhouse. It was more than hubris and the "curse of Norm Smith". We hung on to our glorious past (an sometimes players) and the ways of running a club, for too long. If winning a few games every year, is all you want, I can't wait for the day when you opt out and follow another club. Meanwhile, I figure I've waited nearly 50 years...I have enough faith in what is being done at this time, to hang on a bit longer.

As I said I did not see the game, but I did see some highlights on the Australia Network Grandstand, including Tappie's little touch and an attempted tackle from Watts that went wrong and he seemed to pull out. It would be easy from seeing such a thing to think he was soft. But others who saw more of the game might have a more positive viewpoint of Jack's effort throughout the whole match. As for Tapscott, it reminded me of the one and only Rodney Grinter's grunt - which can't be too much of a bad thing !

Game wasn't on Australia Network so had to follow on the internet. Seems every time Jack Watts gets a boost in the media he plays poorly in the next game. Maybe better to leave him out of the interview stuff for a while, until he can play more than one blinder in a row. As for the others...? just saw the post above this saying he was okay - but 16 disposals sounds a bit low. So hard not being able to see the game - had to watch Playschool and learning to weave Solomon Mats instead!

As they showed the CarscumPort who rt who game on Australia network I had to rely on Matt Bergin on Twitter (did a greta job as usual way ahead of the afl automated scoreboard) I could not see this defining moment in our club's future. Just the same it sure feels good. And all those who dpubted where Mark Neeld and DonMclardy and the rest are taking us should now get on the money and believe in what these guys are doing. GO DEES!!!!

WRONG!! I received a response the next morning saying thank you an the mail would be passed on to Don. Hardly the response of a non caring president or club.

Basically I agree with Old Dee's sentiment here. As a 50 year supporter the last 48 years have been one piece of "blind faith" after another. There have been so many failed seasons. And, even though I have not been in Melbourne to go to the games very much for the last 20 years, the hurt and frustration from failure is still there. 2 failed Grand Finals in all that time. I sometimes wonder why I bother. Being out of town, I have a perfect excuse not to follow them - but I do. At this time when it seems we are actually trying a different approach to our team and the way we play, we should give those we so enthusiastically put in charge just over 6 months ago a bit longer, before we once again throw the baby out with the bath water. Getting rid of Neeld and the others on the coaching panel will be "deja vu - all over again". We took a big gamble in appointing Neeld - that is a given. But, from what I can see, sitting in the outer, he has a very,very difficult set of issues to deal with. When you have let a culture build up among the players, where they are not encouraged to play for the team, but for their own egos and let their bad habits just fester, it's going to take more than 1 pre-season and 8 games to fix. But, of course it's right for us to let the club know what we think and how concerned we are about being on the bottom - yet again. It is not good enough. But neither is just being "competitive" ; getting to 2 Grand Finals in 48 years and failing both times. In both those games we were little better than what was seen in Sydney last week. I want more than just a win or 2. I want us to be the best team in the competition - which means winning the Grand Final. I think history has shown the way we have been doing it was never going to work. This is nothing short of as revolution. It also might fail. But,let's not turn it into a civil war.

But several of those players don't deserve respect. Soft limp show pony woozzes!!

Couldn't agree more! The last 2 GFs we've been in we shouldn't have - that's why we got pantsed in both. Under Bailey we were heading that way again. This is real distruptive stuff going on right now for the club. If we don't "do something" in the immortal words of the sage in the raincoat from Hawthorn, it will be more of "we were good 2000-5". Did we win a flag in those years ? No we didn't! Another round of that would be much easier to do than what's going on now. But, it would be just another nail in the coffin. As for changing coaches to another untried and in the case of this thread's subject Matthew Lloyd would add even more to our demise. Mark Neeld, and those around him are professional coaches. This is not kick to kick - this is football. This is a gutsy group of people prepared to back themselves to change the culture. They know what they are doing. They know what they want. It's not just do win enough games to make us think "next year"... It's not just to get to play a final and go down in a screaming heap without winning the ultimate prize! This is an exciting ride. Not since the glory days of the 50s have we had a chance to live dangerously. Who knows, we might even win a flag!!! Stop this rubbish about changing coaches and see the big picture. Go Dees

Is 186 competitive ? What about a couple of other earlier dices with death before that fateful day? It was becoming quite obvious before 186 we were not on plan. And so what if things have now been pushed out a couple of years? There is no easy road to the flag any more. What we did in the 50s-60s was partly as a result of our "privileged" place in the world. Then we took a long, long time to realize the new train had left the station without us. Moreover, teams like Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Richmond and Carlton had taken our 1st Class seats . Since then we nearly got there with Northey after 4-5 years of a rebuild started by RDB. Then somehow under Danahier - but we weren't ready. I support what we are doing now. I will not be surprised if I feel an awful pain later today when the final siren sounds against the Hawks. But, if you watch the Leigh Brown interview on the MFC site and follow Robbo's weekly "love-in" with Mark Neeld, it might help you understand where we are at with the re-build. Don't give up on what is happening. Go Dees!