BangkokDemon

As I said earlier, we all want the same thing, but there is debate about how to get there. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, I am quite privilaged and will never forget, sitting in the front row of the MCG, in 1964 (this being the only one I saw "live") and all those emotions that went through me at the time - and have stayed with me forever since. That doesn't mean, I am satisfied - far from it. I know I said, if we don't win another flag in my lifetime, I will feel "sad"- I will. But I also know, that we will all have been let down and sold a pup. Right now, I believe we are on the right track to bring home the Demon. When I see what is going on at the club now, I believe this administration will also not be happy until they have a few premierships to their collective names. As for the player group, I think the endevour of the past couple of weeks following the set backs against the Maggies and Bombers, have shown a spirit which has been missing for a long time. Yes, we need more talent, we all know that. How we get it is the subject of this debate. Not being in Oz, I have to rely on the internet, web sites such as Demonland and Demonology and what is sent from the club. And all this, including the passion shown on this board, makes me feel, it will happen. I just hope I am in Melbourne, to see the first one of this era. Perhaps we should all trust the club and believe in the skills of the recruiting department, to know how this will be done. It may well be, some form of "list management" is on their minds. If it is, I am sure it will be done with much more "science" than us mere mortals are capable of. But, I doubt it will be a "lose at all cost" mentality.

A couple of interesting questions Hannabal- thanks. In answer to your first question : No, a flag is not the be all and end all, of what I would like to see. A strong club, in every way, would make me happy. And one of the best ways to show that, is to win premierships. I know you can look at Collingwood and say, they are strong and have only won one single flag in nearly 50 years. But, that's Collingwood NOT Melbourne. As for your second question, I have seen 4 flags in my lifetime. I started life as a (wavering) Tiger supporter. After a couple of years of "suffering", I deftly slithered down Brunton Avenue to the MCG and have kept the faith, ever since. There is something about this club, which just keeps me here - even though I now live outside Australia. If I don't see another flag in the years I have left (which I hope are many), I guess I'll feel a little sad. But will it stop me following Melbourne? NO - Go Dees

That's your opinion okay - I respect that. But, there have been several posts that have gone well beyond suggesting "list management". I don't have a problem with some player taking a rest because of real fitness issues which could turn nasty, if they play. Nor, do I see anything wrong with trying several of the younger guys. That makes sense at this time of year, when the finals are not on the radar. But, there seems to be a train of thought going through several posts, that we should go out of our way to lose. And if we don't lose, we're a stupid club. I don't want that, because I think it is dangerous, for reasons I have explained elsewhere. Others don't don't see the dangers and that's their opinion. But I think all of us want the same thing : A Premieship winning team, for now and all time. It is no longer acceptable to say "we did our best", when that doesn't happen. The difference is how we get there! Go Dees!!

Good on you Kat and Melbourne Passion. I'm also a newby to this forum. However, I have been a Demon supporter for 50+ years. I haven't lived in Oz since 1994, but I have always kept up my membership and will go to any lengths to see us on TV - when it's on ! I got pasted on another thread on here, for saying the same as you guys. These "wise guys" who think their "cunning plan" will secure Scully and thereby the flag, in a couple of years, are like Baldrick in Black Adder - or perhaps even Black Adder himself? His "cunning plans" always go astray - just as all these "tank,tank,tank" plans could well do. I would like to ask some of them, what they would think, if by chance (a big chance admittedly) we beat the [censored] this weekend ? (which really, is not as silly as it sounds - if some of the walking wounded, are still not there). Will these same "tank at all cost" people be calling for Bailey to be fired; for the commitee to resign on mass and for Jimmy to make his standing down, permanent ??? I won't. But I will be very upset - only because it will not be on TV in Thailand!! Go DEES!!!!!!

Here, here Dimmy. I've been fumbling around trying to say much the same, but got caught up in a rather useless discussion about "tanking".

I know it was discussed several weeks ago - before we won a couple of games. But, now, it becomes an issue again. I agree they are not likely to "telegraph" it - you will need to read between the lines. And if we get thrashed by the Cats this will likely be a non-issue again.

Same tools, but different attitude. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a point for discussion in the general media and the club is forced to comment. Then, we'll all know...I guess ?

Hey, I have been there for the past 50 years. I was there when we started shooting ouselves in both feet, by treating Norm Smith as we did and letting Barassi go off to Carlton. I saw all those horrible games and the recruiting of "messiah" players and coaches, who were not. This is the first time in all those years (since the "glory days"), I have felt we might be learning, how to operate a club and an on ground team. Like you, I believe, we will have not won anything, until that pennant is proudly unfurled at the start of a next season - or even 2 or 3, before too long. Winning games now, is of little consequence to that plan/desire - I know that. Which is why I said in my previous post, we should use the opportunity to develop players and cotton wool others, for the future. I repeat, if we lose most of these games and end up with the best picks - great. I just don't think it is a good idea to "tank". I believe we are starting to be a "smart" club. It is obvious we are "building". If that "building" includes PPs great. I know we need to take every opportunity to build this team, but are you so desperate that you want to "manipulate" the system just to do it ?

If you want my opinion: by not tanking in 2007 it showed up most of the problems both on and off the field. So, yes, it is true we were delivered a couple of terrible years. Who knows what might have happened if we had "tanked". That is in the realm of fantasy, more suitable for the next Matrix movie, than Melbourne Football Club, in late 2009 and beyond. I think you miss my point about damage. I was not referring to the "old" damaged goods - many of them are beyod repair - I was referring to our future : Jurrah, Watts, Morton, Grimes etc., plus some of the best estabished players, Davey, Green, (a wised up) Sylvia and so on. As for other clubs, as I said earlier, that was then, this is now. This is the last year of the exisiting draft format. If we end up keeping hold of our PP, I'm happy for that. But, to deliberatly go on the ground to lose, is not something I think we should do. However, should a player such as Davey or Grimes, or even Jurrah, be shown to be at risk of injury by playing - they should not play. Same as when Sylvia comes back from suspension; send him to Casey, to learn some discipline. That is managing our future - not just playing for a win at the "junk end" of our season. Use the time positively not negatively. Tanking is negative- even if it ensures a PP. Blooding young players and not risking injury to others is positive, with very little down side. And if we lose, the up side is obvious. But, everyone will have tried to win - which is what the game is about....isn't it ?

Jarka,that was then, this is now. I know that if we do manage to hold on to our priority draft pick position that will be a plus. But, is the damage that would be caused to the current player group knowing we intentionally "tanked", worth it ? And what would a number one pick think about being "conscripted" by a coniving scheme, just to get him? Then of course, there's the damage to the club's reputation and I daer say long term survival. Did Carlton benefit a lot from all the "scheming" they did back in the 90s- the "tanking" talk of recent years was chicken feed compared to that?

"It's not the system, its us running our list into the ground over the last 6 or so years." Well said Dee-Luded. Blaming the system is just a cop out- good clubs learn to work with it. We didn't back then and suffered. Yes, it would be nice to have top picks at the end of the year. But, it is also important for the current playing group to change from a "we did our best" culture to a "winning" culture. Planning to tank as many of the posters here suggest, is very dangerous for both the current playing group and future Demons.

Some of you guys give me the impression that you believe success is like a Play Station Game. Chamber 1: If we end up on the bottom with no more wins, we will pick up this player. Chamber 2: In 2010, we win X number of games and finish in the middle. Chamber 3: 2011 bottom of the 8 Chamber 4: The dragon enters to challenge us mid-season, but........bla bla bla..... If only winning a flag was so simple. Get real. This time last year, the club (especially the team) was at the lowest level I have experinced, in my 50 years of following them. Yes, I was there during the last "real" glory days - when winning the premiership was, considered success - nothing else. I jokingly say, I want to be there on 27th September 2014, when it happens again (but if it happens sooner, bring it on!). Those glory years of the 50s and first half of the 60s, were set up through many years of serendipity+ excellent coaching and great(and lucky) recruiting. There was no "master plan" apart from winning the flag. Rules were broken; the club had a strong base from the late 40s & early 50s, when others - largely because of the times - were struggling. And yes, most definatley, the right players do make a lot of difference. It's a cop out to rely just on the draft to discover great players. The brightest star since our let downs against the Maggies and the Bombers, in the past month,has been a player we picked up for next to nothing and didn't even feature in the draft. I just hope he continues to develop and we reward him accordingly, because I love watching him play and know what someone like Liam can do for our chances. If you look through all clubs, there are not a lot of No.1 picks who have gone on to become the absolute "heroes" of their respective clubs. So many of the greats have become great by other means (father&son rule, rookie list, trade etc.) - not by following the "rules", as in a Playstation game. If we continue to win games, this year, I will be very happy. I think you should ask yourselves (putting tanking to one side),what would continus poundings, or "honorable losses", do to team morale? Isn't that part of our long term problem? For too long we accepted coming second as "doing our best". This group(and the club) seems to be wanting to say "We're not gonna take it". What's wrong with that ? A football team is real people, playing against other real people. Plan by all means. But if that plan goes of the rails in a positive way - make the most of it!