Little Goffy

I think you'll find that a lot of the 'poo-poo' of your thread was about the ridiculous hubris of it, rather than any belief that the Demons lack class. Glen Archer has been quoted many a time saying the reason for his seemingly mad courage was that he was always more scared that one day he'd shirk a contest and be marked for years. It doesn't mean they're not a classy mob, but the day (night) they go out thinking they've got it covered, they'll blow it. If Junior had just figured 'hey, our guys are classy, they'll be right'... could be whole different call to SEN. And please stop suggesting that we're 'making a mockery' of the other clubs. Can't we just be proud of something without making it about how we're better than 'them'?

Sometimes I think people only want to manage the 'top six' list rather the whole team list. Jones is 'value for money' in salary cap terms and worth the spot on the list. Good training attitude and seems to be an enthusiastic club person. If if doesn't improve from here, he's worth keeping. If he improves a notch, then he's well worth keeping.

Brisbane seem to be taking their 'list clean out' a bit far. And they seem to be doing it from the wrong end, too.

If the AFL ever tries this on us, we're collecting the cash to pay whatever fine they want to hand out, and telling them to get stuffed. Are we all prepared to commit to that right now so we're ready for it when it comes? I'm in, obviously.

I'm a bit torn. What kind of result is most likely to help my Collingwood supporting friend gradually ease off and make the switch to the Demons? Also, a poll on Collingwood losing a GF needs to have wholly original options - they are the AFLs groundbreakers, trailblazers and 'outside the box' leaders in finding new ways to lose Grand Finals. A real breakthrough that might be a win on both these counts would be to win the game, but then have it disallowed for some reason. But that would be bad for football in general so I can't cheer for that. Hmm... Collingwood to win, but only because a number of St Kilda stars get injured by acts of thuggery. Watch the taste of glory turn to ashes in their mouth... Nah, I just can't get my mean-spirit going on Grand Final week!

I'm really, really deeply uncomfortable with what is basically bragging about something that we as fans have so little knowledge of and less control over, and which is so immensely fragile. I'm proud of the club's visible culture, I've been proud of just about everything I've heard from the club for a couple of years now. But it's not a pride that goes to blowing our own trumpet. Your reputation isn't settled 'til your dead. Sometimes not even then.

I'd be keen for Jones to stay. Not making the top ten of the B&F was probably disappointing but maybe it is shaped a little by expectation, who knows. Can't see a strong argument for offloading him. I'd be really worried if this was some kind of falling out or disfavour. But at the moment, it is all a storm in a teacup in a cupboard labelled 'rumour'. Mind you, we've already seen that the Gold Coast are targeting players named Nathan.

Yeah, ahh... no. We're not talking about Josh Fraser here. We're talking about a guy with a powerful frame, first class ruck skills, the ability to take pack marks, a great work ethic and attack on the ball, all packaged with a mature attitude to continuous improvement and has started to show real presence as a leader. Wouldn't surprise me if he was in next year's leadership group. He has also played relatively few seasons as a first ruck and isn't carrying a great deal of wear and tear, and is not at all old for a 'developed' ruckman. Can't be far off the most valuable player on our list right now and the gap to our next best ruck option is considerable. Playing kids like Gawn and Fitzpatrick for long stints in the ruck at this age would see them be 'unavailable' for our 'premiership run' in much quicker time than Jamars career, which could well have five years to go. Trading Jamar, even for a very good draft pick or two, would be an appalling piece of list management, not to mention a slap in the face after all our 'Demon loyalty' talk. Also, I have a big ol' man-crush on the Russian because I'm so happy that he came good after all the years of belief I invested in him.

Between this sort of thing and the Whiteboard Wednesday series, is there any other club that even comes close to this level of transparency and accessibility? I had no idea, all those years ago, that the club I chose to back on a unclear generation-skipping link of family support, was going to turn out to be the club which most deserves respect for its operating values, community commitment, and beautiful blend of pride and humility.

Hmm.... Club publicly notes concerns raised about the young player development and support. A Western Australian newspaper (was it the Freo times? :S )runs a story on how Woey is expected to move into AFL coaching ranks for next season, citing his particular aptitude for develpoing and getting the most out of young players. Just a coincidence? Well, yes, almost certainly.

When you realise that he's gone half a decade and more being an umpire that people feel like they have a licence to single out for extra abuse, it kind of points up why Hird's comments, and Newman's pushing him to make them, were way out of line. Still a disgrace of the greatest order that Hird's next game got zero brownlow votes despite being one of the all-time great individual performances. That was fairly blatantly personal vendetta interfering with a supposedly impartial process, and it came from the damned umpires! As far as promoting the game goes, poor umpriing is on a level with some of the terrible commentary we're getting lately. Nothing has screwed up my gradual efforts to induct people into the joy of AFL than having to look at them and say, 'No, I'm sorry, I just can't explain what that was about'. And it is when you have a new person sitting with you that you realise how often it happens. The laws of the game need to be stablised, have a few idiotic excesses (like the interchange 50m) stripped back, and the 'interpretations' not messed with over the course of each season. But most of all, the AFL needs to put millions, and I mean millions, more in umpire development from grassroots to the top level.

Neale Daniher could be the coach Essendon needs. Pros Builds a bond with and between players - an Essendon priority Has personal Essendon history and connections - an apparent Essendon priority Handles club politics calmly - an Essendon priority Get's the most out of 'ordinary' players - an Essendon must-have Cons Might not have gotten the best out of higher-level players - not much of an issue at Essendon! And the big question, how might he have gone with all the resources of a big club at hand? How will he go delegating to the best assistant coaches money can buy? Remember that he now has a couple of years of experience as a footy manager at Freo to add to his ten years at the Demons. The question is, does he have the desire to finally grab the premiership that injury cruelly, and the Bombers ironically, denied him as a player then coach?

A handy pick up for us, question mark on the trade/cash price. Keeping cash expectations down is my main driving reason for avoiding trades in, in general. You can't expect your whole list to be taking 20-30% less than 'market' if you then buy in a player at market or above. Would be an amazing super brilliant hoopla hoopy-doo woopitee pick up for Essendon. I mean, it would be a flat doubling of their stock of A-grade midfielders. And they sure as #@%$ wouldn't have any salary cap issues out that way. The only way Essendon are going to climb out of their hole is to have faith in their tall stocks and pull out all the stops trying to build a respectable midfield - paying as much as they have to, in picks and dollars, for any A-grade midfielders they can get. Hell, getting Rischitelli might just give them some belief that they can bring the pieces together, and there may even be Essendon fans with some hope for next year. One way or another, Essendon will be in hot pursuit of a ready-to-go AFL midfielder. They'll be dreaming of Andrew Gaff with their first pick, and then everything else they can offer will be put out there for a trade-in.

I hear the pain of a Demon's supporter in Adelaide... I'm so glad it isn't me. As a group, they must be the hardest-up to believe that we're really making improvements, that we're really developing. All they hear is 'progress progress progress' talk and all they get to see live is 'weakness weakness weakness'. Like Carlton supporters living in Sydney, it's a tough gig. Hollow comfort for me to tell you that things really are much better than they look over there. Mind you, this thread looks like a bit of a sookathon. A little bit of taking some perverse joy in being 'right' about relentless fatalism. That stuff sucks the life from clubs more than anything else.

On form Miller has deserved a game for a couple of weeks. Sentimentality and respect have a place when finals are out of the picture. Surely Miller gets a game. It would of course be nice if Bell did too, but that is harder to argue as his form hasn't been as good. Despite not becoming the guns we hoped for, they are both respectable players and good clubmen. I wish them the best, but even if all else fails, they can always take a tilt at coaching Essendon.

There is no better place club for underlying talent or leadership in the medium to long term. In the short team Green, Bruce, Davey, Moloney, Rivers and Jamar are experienced players with plenty of character who can provide the core leadership at the club. We're alright. Remember that the 'leadership vacuum' was something we faced during the bulk retirements in 07-08 in particular, and the retirement of the leadership Colossus Neitz. In many eyes, McDonald was a leap of faith that paid back big time and gave us just the right captain. I know it is hard to adjust to, but we're alright!

I love Junior and it is a sad day to know that he is retiring. But I think it shows a surety of purpose and, in a sense, values. Not even the club's best-loved are above the needs of the club. Players know that it is very rare to get to pick when you go. I think the most important thing is to handle 'significant' retirements with respect, even if there is some push. And really, they are all significant.

Moloney is a berserker for the club, and definitely a potent leader, but does he suit the particular responsibilities of a 'modern' captain, and is his leadership best delivered in his own, effective and informal, way? Davey is a gun and again is definitely a leader at the club, but I think his tendency to let taggers under his skin once in a while and throw some really embarrassing dives and sooks is unfortunate and knocks him back as THE captain as opposed to being A leader. Again, his best leadership is informal, subtle and personal and I don't know if it would be helped by being made Captain. Grimes... I think by the end of his career he will have the stature of only a handful of players of his time, built on deep respect. But I don;t think being passed the captaincy right now would help to get the most out of him or offer the club the best result of the options. So for me, it is Green. Versatile enough to go where needed on the field. A first-class player who lately has shown he knows how to work himself back into games after poor starts. 'Solid citizen' and confident with media, sometimes even enough to say genuinely interesting things! He missed the leadership group a few years back due to a variety of circumstances, but he also took in some criticsm at the time and to his great credit acted on it. And yeah, he sacrificed a six-figure sum to stay at the Demons in tough times. Loyalty is easy to have when it isn't tested. His has been tested and it came through. I think Green is the player that we would get the most benefit from making captain, too. The other contenders already deliver most of what they can and won't necessarily bring more if made captain. But I simply feel that Green will respond the most to the position and that his appointment would be the one that the club would gain the most out of.

I've gone with an A. But the more I've thought about it, and deleted the long version a few times, the more I want to add a '+' Putting aside beating ladder expectations, putting aside development of players across the board... I'm thinking that the great successes of this year have been intangibles. Clarity of purpose, initiative, unity, and even humility. Could we be better prepared?

Scott Thompson of Adelaide is not relevant to the Demons except as a piece of history and an opposition player. The cost in $$$ and picks/trade would be simply well over the benefits. He is also not really relevant to this thread, in as much as the Scott Thompson mentioned above is North Melbourne mid-tall defender Scott Thompson. As for Meesen. If he is injured for another season's duration it is unneccesary to keep him on the list next year as no other club would look at him with his injuries and lacklustre history. He could well do a year as a kind of Ruck coach, who knows, and if all the stars aligned we'd be able to rookie list him for 2012 anyway!

The critical thing I keep noticing is the depth of the list. There are of course many kids with 'potential' who it would be foolish to mark in as players in 2014, or that sort of crystal ball gazing. But the simple fact is that even with a few of our highest rated players out (Petterd, Grimes, Moloney most obviously) and fairly experienced bodies like Bate, Warnock and Miller in the 2s, we still have trouble fitting in everyone who 'deserves a game'. We have a shortage of a critical ingredient from our rebuilding process that Carlton, Essendon or Richmond all have... list cloggers!

Nice to get a visit from a BigFooty moderator... Doing a stirling job, I must say.

I've left it to the last minute... I'm edgy saying it but I think we've got their measure and will win every quarter on the way to a comfortable win. That is quite the outrageous position but hey, I'm going for the speccy.

I heard that Matthew Knights was in the running to be Essendon's coach next year.

[post to correct thread this time] I've always been a scarf-wearer, and like to bring extras so friends can be Demons for a day (I'm subliminally wearing them down) but couldn't really afford a guernsey until recently. At least, not at the same time as forking out for Debt Demolition! But I've got one now, and it'll be on pre-game, game, post-game, and any other game I get to. See if you can spot it at the Carlton-Essendon game, I'll be in the bluest of the Blue seats, should stand out nicely.