jnrmac

????? Wow

Its a Sophie's choice dilemma. To me Watts is like a virus in the team. His lack of efforts, his inability to win critical one-on-one contests, his refusal to put his body on the line, his refusal to pick up his man (and point to everyone else to do so), is a festering sore in the team ethic. 'Why should I go if he doesn't', 'He doesn't put effort in and gets selected I am sick of it', 'Why should I bust my arz and drive the ball forward only to see it come back because Watts couldn't win the one on one'. etc etc. I like Watts with the ball in his hand, He is an elite decision maker and his delivery skills are something we severely lack. But I struggle with his negatives and think on balance they outweigh his positives. You must have players that can win their position and Watts in 100 games has done that maybe 3 times? Even if it was 10 times its simply not good enough. Grimes on the other hand is a fearless warrior with shocking disposal. This can be just as debilitating for a team when we are running clear with the ball and he kicks it OOB on the full or turns it over. Granted he seems to have improved this but its a highly limiting factor if you can't keep posession of the ball and keep turning it over. So they both have fatal flaws. But on balance I would take Grimes over Watts any day because he can win his position and his effort and grunt are critical to a team ethic that we have to develop more.

Wouldn't have thought so. FOr a start we have the 3 strikes policy. Next......

Hmmm do you think so?

Disagree. Go and read the Adam Goodes thread if you want to get depressed. Oh hang on, you wrote most of it......

Ess claim they had a deal with Gillard, Demetriou, Evans and ASADA. It was in writing but unsigned. The NRL got wind of it and went beserk. Gillard reneged, withdrew the deal and if you recall the timing called an election a week later (That is another conspiracy theory - the week of the blackest day in sport was the same week Eddie Obeid was in the witness box at ICAC and on the front page of every paper. Gillard was itching to call an election) It does explain to some extent why EFC went so nuclear and claimed conspiracy etc etc. They feel aggreived. If you think about it their feral reaction could be explained by that. Not saying it is justified but it does go same way to explaining their behaviour and self-righteous stance, And why they hate Demetriou and were mightily peeved whe the AFL caved in on the Dr Reid case. All the side deals would have come out. Interesting.....

Yep that would be ridiculous. If we get an injury 10minutes in we'd be cooked.

This is the nub of it.

Nah it won't because you can't do it. At best you can turn over 10-13 players which is effectively what we have been doing. And you can't clean out all the senior players or you end up with a Neeld like team.

Nah he's right. Grimes above Watts any day.

About time we found out if he can play because I for one haven't seen it

There are 15 players left from 2011 when Mitch Robinson labelled us 'bruise free'. Not that many senior players left Jones, Watts McKenzie Trengove Dunn Garland Jamar Fitzpatrick Bail Gawn Howe Jetta Spencer McDonald Grimes Hard to believe the younger players are ignoring the coaches and playing on their own terms. Our leadership stinks and has since Neitz and Junior left.

Those Myki cards can do some real damage you know.....

GWS don't seem to have that problem. They are young. Their leaders are clearly better than ours - Ward, Mumford, Davis and even Shaw...

Oh yeah but they didn't tank so they are not mentally scarred like us and Carlton........

Why can't they both play well in the same year?

I get what you are saying but I cant let them wheel it out as an excuse. If there are guys there like that they have to be weeded out. If it's Howe then drop him and say why he is being dropped. Its interesting to me that no-one is calling for the Russian to come back in - our AA ruckman. clearly isn't leading on the ground and wont get back in until he does hopefully. Watts needs to go with Howe. Bail and MJones can go as well. Get players who are going to run through brick walls.

Well at least Col is back into some decent form which is more than can be said for the other bloke.

I'd be happier with the win.loss ratio if we didn' t capitulate so pathetically in our losses. I watch other games and mostly teams try really hard for four quarters, eveb when they are getting beaten,. Unfortunately when a team plays melbourne they know they are always in teh game because we are mentally fragile. Put pressure on them and they will crumble. We are such a soft bunch of pathetic footballers - except for around 7 or 8 players - that it is increasingly hard to buy into the 'we are improving' story. The game day coaching and selection has me worried and if it wasnt for Viney, Brayshaw, Hogan, Petracca, NJones and McDonald there wouldn't be much to cheer about. I will also be happy when we win 2 in a row for the 1st time since 2011. That is a damning stat.

I saw that I was just wanting to know whether he singled out the leadership group. It would be his style to do that I think but clearly we don't have enough of players who stand up when things are going pear shaped.

I'm not buying it. Blaming the past culture. We are long past that. Players are told where to run, how to defend, where to kick to etc etc. Its not that hard. Maybe they are not intellectually capable of doing it but the scarred minds scenario doesn't wash with me.

Good from the POV he probably won't be coaching on the weekend He is a pretty fit guy so that is unusual....

A milion bucks ain't what it used to be....

We need everyone else go up to Nathan Jones' level.

Did Roos mention the Leadership group?