whatwhat say what

no, i don't "want" anyone delisted - i want them all to succeed. but i'm cognizant of the fact that, at the moment, brayshaw is tracking no better than toumpas as a player. i would love it if he could become a valuable contributor to the side, but at the moment is averaging less than 15 disposals a game at 68% efficiency across 33 games. it's not good enough, just as toumpas' average of less than 15 disposals a game at 74% efficiency across 35 games is similarly not good enough for a modern footballer be they a midfielder or a push-up half forward. if brayshaw was what we had to give up to get a lever in, i'd do the deal in a heartbeat.

Our backline is thin tho and lacking in skill - at the moment Lumumba and Garland are 'gone' for their career and 2017 respectfully, Frost cannot maintain fitness, and Hibberd has come to the club and immediately broken down at the age of 26, 27. Lever's skills are miles higher than the two Macs - and I'm a big fan of both those boys, but they lack the natural ability of Lever. Midfielders can always be found - there's an expectation that Petracca will go into the midfield, Stretch is getting better all the time, and ANB has started 2017 in much the same form as Brayshaw (middling, at best). It's always "easier" to find mids than quality ball-using key defenders.

But that's the things @TickleMeTyson - you've got to give to get. Brayshaw's ceiling is high; so too is Lever's. I'd argue that the latter has more scope for improvement and greater natural ability than Brayshaw. Both are highly rated, and if we have to give to get, Brayshaw could be a possibility - he's definitely rated higher than ANB for instance, and Stretch (who I'd argue has more impact on a game-to-game basis than Brayshaw).

I just don't rate Brayshaw. He can't get the ball and when he does get it he turns it over. Either he improves massively in 2017 or he's trade bait for mine.

Lever has had a far superior start to his career than Brayshaw - he can hit a target by foot which helps. Brayshaw to Carlton, Gibbs to Adelaide, Lever to Melbourne plus a shuffle of draft picks. You've got to give something to get something, and Brayshaw could easily be the makeweight in any deal to get the likes of Lever in.

15 games, 19 years old...so far in 2017 averaging 35.5 possessions @ 84% efficiency, 15 contested, and 8 tackles a game. he's pretty spesh.

i remember prior to the draft i was speaking to a champion data employee who was also a saints supporter - he was 100% confident that they were going to pick trac as he was, clearly in his view, the best underage player they'd ever seen in terms of where his ratings sat, and his influence upon games. he was shocked when it turns around to 'needs' rather than 'best available' and they picked mccartin.

i still think mccartin is going to be a very good player - he reads the flight of the ball well and is a terrific mark, but at this stage he simply doesn't look anything like fit enough to play afl-level football. the concussion issue is a massive concern tho. i would ask whether it's worth saints re-tooling him as someone who can learn the trade as a defender first, but his leading patterns and the like are actually pretty good; he doesn't need to follow good forwards around learning where and when to run, cos it seems pretty instinctual to him. so at the moment he's just a bit of an overweight key forward - and make no mistake, i think he'll end up a better forward than bruce or membrey, the latter of whom is a classic undersized third tall and the former who is a hit-and-miss player. fwiw, i am so very, very happy with weideman. once he starts clunking the marks he's getting his hands to - hopefully this week against the blues - he's going to be a really strong aerial threat who is a pearler of a kick both at goal and around the ground. petracca has the arrogance of stringer and neck tatts and hopefully will be better than both.

Gotta be GW$. Took the best 17 year olds out of drafts when we were down and a rabble desperate for quality kids, stole our #1 picked player, dominated drafts as we continued to struggle along, and currently have a winning record over us, one of few teams they do already in their young life. I loathe them.

carltank supporting mate is celebrating already. he's convinced they're finishing stone motherless and will appeal for a priority pick, have picks 1 and 2 at the table, and pick up these two potential gw$ boys. i personally think if that does happen it's far more likely sos will give picks 1 and 2 to gw$ for some magic beans, but whatever...

the beauty is that if they start playing a harder tag on him. in theory it should free viney up in particular around the contest. oliver, viney and salem will be the #1 rotation of mids for us you'd think.

when you look at those numbers, the biggest differential is the 18 months age gap that tyson has on kelly. also interesting that whilst dom makes 1 more 'clanger' per game, his actual de% is higher, and obviously as an inside player dom's clearances are slightly higher and kelly's i50s are slightly higher. both are very, very good players - easy to argue that kelly's ceiling is higher, but i think the trade in and of itself is a classic win-win.

It is such good news, reading yr posts drunkn you can feel the excitement. Go Dec and go Dees!

Fantastic to see him get his chance. Good luck to him!

i think of it as lewis and hibberd for our second round pick. unbelievable result.

they want our second round this year; we've offered second round next year. it'll go back and forth and be thrown around how to get it done and then one way or the other it'll happen, primarily cos they need his contract off their books due to all their new deals for various peptide payments to players like hurley et al who were out of contract.

i was under the impression m jones had a year to run on his contract; think it's probably just as well he goes now. good luck to all of them. i kinda hope grimes gets another go somewhere else, but i personally have doubts as to whether he will or not.

will grimes get another go at a different afl club? watching him on sunday was sad. trengove and spencer got new one-year deals so will be on the list in 2017. i'll go with the following: dawes - wait and see depending upon hogan lumumba - pay him out dunn - is he a trade option? would have more value to another club than garland as defensive coverage newton - gone garland - is he a trade option? would have less value to another club than dunn as defensive coverage, and we somehow gave him three years pedersen - i'd keep him as coverage michie - gone jkh - trade option anb - trade option grimes - gone mitch white - gone / re-rookie terlich - gone

This. He looks like an ideal third tall, but in I remain to be convinced he suits our structure. Now watch us not draft him and dominate 2017 for his afl club!

he wants his kid at the dees? happy days.

his reading of the play and his attack on the ball - particularly after salem went down - was very exciting to watch.

It's more what we give up to get him that concerns me. I think he'll help us add depth and skill, but I still say he's a solid but unspectacular player. Same as his old buddy Melksham who I would argue has more variable attributes which makes him a more beneficial depth player, whereas Hibberd should be a lock-down best half-back. However, he is completely one-sided and limited in terms of flexibility in a game that is increasingly becoming about variety of roles that can be played and skills that can be executed. If we pay more than our 2017 second round pick we've been gypped.

Shaw was a general at the pies and he's a general at the Giants. Hibberd is a solid foot soldier. He'd absolute be best 22 for 14 or so sides I would guess, including ours, but I fear we will way overpay for a solid player who is limited to only playing one position.

I still don't see the massive appeal of Hibberd. He's a 27 year old one sided half back flanker who has never been able to be part of the midfield rotation. In modern football more often than not yr back 7 consists of a genuine small (Jetta), three talls (Mac x2, Frost) then a rotation of ostensible midfield runners who rotate back. He strikes me as a classic 'good, ordinary' player and I cannot understand what massive benefit he would bring to our side.

Good kicks, smart kicks, and clearance players.