Ron Burgundy

Yes - it possibly is unreasonable Fan. In 2010, we were 3 years into walking down the corridor of a train going in the wrong direction. It's only year 2 in 2013 with the current regime. And, in that time, the other trains are far further advanced down the track in the correct direction than we are. Not that easy to turn the train around and then catch up to the others in 365 days when all other trains are also going flat out. Don't know why I'm using train analogies - perhaps I just like the original Dietrich Bonhoeffer quote.

Perhaps moreso a simplistic analysis that has conveniently overlooked the following point. The reality is that, by the time the the infamous 186 point thrashing occurred at the Cattery, Bailey had had almost 4 years with the list. They were his players, it was his game plan, he controlled the leadership group and, importantly therefore, the culture and attitude of the player group. Clearly, it was busted. Badly. Very, very badly. Neeld, by the time of the equivalent game in 2012, had had less than a year with the list - and, relevantly, with the overwhelming majority of the list still being Bailey's list. The changes in this off season are there for all to see. Not sure if the change in approach will work or not, but you simply cannot ignore these material facts in any meaningful comparison.

Does anyone know whether Sylvia's truly committed to the new regime? I'd love to know. I reckon Rivers and Moloney leaving would've had a big impact on him, not necessarily in a wholly positive way. I really hope this guy plays his entire career at this club.

You don't need to worry about Frawley. He'd be a required player on every list in the competition.

Alcohol. Plenty of alcohol.

Toumpas. And, while it's the same for me every year, I have to say once again, Colin Sylvia.

Just watched the footage. I love Jack Hannath. Devastated he's not a Demon. I also love Mark Neeld. Absolutely stoked he's a Demon.

I assume the Co-Captains are slightly off limits.

I've always thought Bennell COULD be a very good player. He has class, just not hardness. Was following his post season recruitment - doesn't surprise me to see him picked up by WCE. Good luck to him.

Very disappointed about this.

"Deledio Cotchin Houli" Says it all really.

He also approached the club and signed up for an extra 4 or 5 years immediately following the 186 point loss. He didn't have to, but clearly he wanted to make a statement of loyalty and commitment to the club. All the evidence is that this guy has loyalty in spades. I disagree with the post above - loyalty is not only for supporters, and it is not only reserved for matters sports-related. To the contrary, loyalty is rooted in one's character. Everyone has different settings. And that's why some here can't see why a player would remain loyal to a club in the face of extra $$$ and some can see it - in short, we're not all configured the same way. For instance, some of my mates don't understand why I give cash to the MFC and why I'm a Foundation/Debt Demolition Member etc. They think it's a complete waste of money. Yet, for me, it's an absolute no brainer. For some people, it's not all about the dough.

Interesting to read that Pederson was being played in defence. Any chance our forward line might be Clark, Fitzgerald and Dawes, rather than Clark, Pederson and Dawes?

Nothing to do with the Dees, but I can't help watching these clips whenever I go on you tube, which I just did: They're 'ten-awesome'.

Still has 5 years on his contract to go. 5 years.

I agree. Seem to be some big raps on him, but I've not really seen him back it up just yet. Evans is the other one I think could explode if he gets his body right.

How's Taggert's pre-season going? There's not been that much reported about his progress recently.

It's so bloody annoying the Pies landed Grundy with pick 18. That said, I still can't believe we got Jimmy T with pick 4. He would've been my first pick in the draft.

There is no way we'll be worse in 2013 than in 2012, or 2007-2011 for that matter.

I don't think we'll make the 8 this year. That said, I think we will finally win the respect of other teams in the competition. Mitch Clark's return is pivotal too. He needs to be ready for round 1. Cannot wait for a forward line with Clark, Dawes, Pederson and Byrnes in it.

Agree - he had zero trade value. The whole thing is just sad and unfortunate.

As I've said before C&B, it's a very convenient stance you're taking here. Given that Neeld was only appointed at the end of season 2011, he is really only now able to restructure this list, and that he is doing. So it's not as though we could actually have any meaningful comparison just yet. I am just basing my observations on his actions to date. And they have been very deliberate and very clear and, to my mind, very convincing. I have no doubt that we will see a different MFC side next year. I do not believe we're finals bound, as it's still an inexperienced player group, but I think we'll be more consistent and, importantly, we'll be harder and more competitive. However, you seem pretty confident about your position - so, name your price. We'll have a wager that the team we field against Geelong next year at Kardinia Park (round 13, Sat Jul 13 at 2.10pm) will be a lot more competitive than the team we fielded in round 19, Sat Jul 30 at 2.10pm in 2011 that lost by a margin of 186 points - 37.11.233 to 7.5.47. That's not that long ago to be fair - almost identical games, both Sat arvo at Kardinia Park. I'm not going to propose 186 points as the margin, because, despite your clever Exhibit A comment, I think you actually know that no team coached by Mark Neeld will get flogged by 186 points. So, how about a margin of 86? That's a lazy discount of 100 points on 2011.

Grimseyisgod is right - at this point in time, no one knows how successful Neeld will ultimately be at the MFC. That said, the original point I was trying to make in this thread is that the soft approach that this club has become so synonymous with is over. You can see that on so many different levels. In fact, I would've thought seeking to argue against that point is simply being deliberately contrarian.

I was hoping the club would give this guy number 1.

You have got to be joking Curry and Beer. Our approach under Bailey was idealistic. Our approach under Neeld is pragmatic and realistic. This is reflected in the approach to player recruitment. IMO the game plan, and the structure of the lists, between 2010 and now illustrate this. In short, I reckon the 2013 Demons would thump the 2010 version more times than the other way around. You seem to be very selective in identifying certain wins and then basing an entire argument on it - ironic really, given that we've not even made the eight since 2006. Inductive reasoning at its best. Using your 'logic', do you think the 2010 Demons would have beaten the 2012 Swans in this year's Grand Final simply because they got a run on in ONE game at the MCG in 2010? And is not the 2010 Demons side essentially the same team that got humiliated by 186 points in an AFL game in 2011?! Further, 2012 is not the fair comparison IMO. In large part, it was still Bailey's list. 2013 would be slightly fairer comparison as it has much more Neeld influence on it. And I'd back the new list every day - even on a bad day, there's no way this group would ever get thumped by 186 points. Not ever. They just wouldn't allow it to happen.