Ron Burgundy

Top post.

There is absolutely no glory in running down the club at the moment. In fact, it beggars belief as to why any 'supporter' would seek to do so at the moment. My wife is pregnant with our first, and all I can think of is that I want the kid to share in my passion - the mighty fighting Melbourne Demons. I want this club, not only to survive, but to be strong. And a largely irresponsible, manipulative, unethical media is threatening that at the moment. That really gets under my skin - can't they see we're trying to turn things around. And trying hard. Okay - mistakes have been made, but the club is plainly trying to remedy that. This media frenzy is threatening our sponsorship base, our ability to attract players, the momentum that Neeld, Craig and others are trying so desperately to build. Why can't some people see that?! So when I see the likes of you constantly running down the joint, I get annoyed. Your angle is just so bloody short-sighted and dim-witted. And not nearly as clever as you think it is. If I were running this club, I would cancel your membership (to the extent that you have one). Immediately. Go support some other club and tweet like crazy about how clever Caroline Wilson and her cronies are, and how ordinary we are. But don't do that whilst also saying you 'support' this club. We need to change the culture of the joint, and IMO we don't have room for 'supporters' like you. In my head at least, you're de-listed.

Based on my discussions with some players and what I've read to date, I don't believe there's any truth to this. At the Debt Demolition Dinner in 2011, I spoke to (amongst other players) Stef Martin. This particular dinner was held during the period in which Todd Viney was the senior coach, and prior to the appointment of Mark Neeld. Stef Martin kept saying what a relief it was that Viney was at the helm. Specifically he said Bailey seemed to over-work and over-analyse absolutely everything, and it didn't seem like football anymore - rather, it seemed like going to high school everyday - 8am to 5pm stuff. With Viney at the helm, it felt much more like a footy club again - to him at least. It was back to basics. In short, I left those discussions not thinking we were dealing with a coach who had been instructed to tank by those above him. In fact, it seemed the opposite to me. And finally the board had taken the tough decision to stop mucking around with an approach that wasn't working and to try and straighten things up again.

What planet are you from? Getting back to the substance of this thread, it was not all that long ago that Caroline Wilson was giving it to us about the lack of process employed by the club in appointing Neeld. It was aggressive and unreasonable. I recall arguing with you (and others) about this issue at the time, and about the worthiness of Mark Neeld. Neeld, in my view, has been a superb appointment. That's all conveniently forgotten now, and the media has seemingly thought it time to enliven another anti-MFC angle, one which I had thought had been dealt with by the AFL several years ago. And that's why I am concerned about what's happening here. There appears to be a continual anti-MFC agenda at play here. To my mind, we have endured far too much as a club to roll over and lose players and picks that are, in my opinion, rightfully ours. I don't see how this is spin. I drive a BMW 1M.

I don't expect many regulars here would think Range Rover and I are the same person, which for the record we are not. I am more than happy for the mods to confirm this. And I find your avatar name, 'thaipantsman', to be very bloody basic. I find what you have said above to be ironic in the extreme, as your Demonland name seems to me to be quite misogynistic.

And what if they're not true?

Why? If there's truth to it, I agree we should take our medicine. If not, I want the issue dealt with and the record set straight. And for Wilson to also come clean with her agenda.

I agree. This bloke has the goods. Apparently West Coast were right into him. Well done MFC. All we need now is to keep our picks, and to have some luck. Just one lucky break. I'm sick of us having always to face the new ball on a green deck in overcast conditions - it's bloody soul destroying.

If true, obviously a person of utmost integrity - and, if also a witness to the alleged events, clearly a witness to be believed.

Paul, I think we agree on most things. But not this. She is generating the story. These events occurred in 2009. They were investigated. The 'Burnouts' McLean interview occurred months ago. It was boring and hopelessly contrived, by the interviewing panel at least - not by Burnouts admittedly - he was just the moron who was led to the beer barrell. And he sculled the contents of it. We're just about to enter the pre-season to season 2013. How is this relevant or fascinating so long after the alleged events, particularly given the radical changes that the Demons have undergone since that time? Simple. Caroline Wilson decided to enliven the issue - and, from what I've read, based on virtually no new material, certainly no new game-changing material. Most of what she has re-hashed in recent days seems to reflect a club in a turmoil during the Bailey years and one which was characterised by some pretty poor cultural issues (eg, player dissatisfaction etc), but it does not provide any good evidence of 'tanking' - which I had thought was meant to be at the very heart of the issue. She just seems to have thrown everything into the mix, in an unbelievably unsophisticated way, all of which she says leads to the obvious conclusion that we deliberately tanked the whole of season 2009. Her editor must be away on holiday, or drunk. Her articles on this issue have, at best, limited substantive content to them - it's all innuendo and unsubstantiated hearsay. 'New Idea' stuff. And I want her to be accountable for that, not just the MFC. It's current a trial by (a very basic) media. That troubles me. In short, I think her agenda is very much part of the story at the moment. There's something at play here - I just don't know what it is.

Nah. Just keep selling out any semblance of integrity you may once have had. Unlike you, most other MFC supporters here don't, and won't, sell out.

Just read the article. Caroline Wilson cannot write. That former players were cut in recent years does not in any way support her argument. I, for one, was very disappointed that Junior was let go at the end of 2011, but I did understand the reasons underlying that decision. And they weren't in any way to do with tanking. I have to say I don't know with certainty what is fact and what is not fact in relation to the so-called 'vault' meeting. But one fact I do know with absolute certainty is this. She is ugly.

Gutter journalism. It's starting to make the News of the World look like a paper of absolute integrity. That said, did you believe everything they published? Grubby journos manipulate the 'truth' to create sensationalist 'stories'. Surely everyone knows that by now. Keep calm team. Get behind the club - don't turn on it. Rather, vent your anger on 'Burnouts' McLean ...

That is if we are found to be guilty. Don't jump the gun on that - I expect there is a lot of compelling evidence to counter the 'claims' of the 4 or so disgruntled former employees.

Bloody rich really - particularly given that he was one player who consistently did his best for the club, eg, by urinating on the bar one night in St Kilda at 3am as the team's VC, and also by racking up a total of zero possessions in the 186 loss against Geelong. Quality stuff Brent. You bozo. Brock "Burnouts" McLean and Bozo Moloney. Caroline Wilson's star witnesses in the case against the MFC. Hence, can some of you please calm down? The frenzy on the thread is adding fuel to the fire. The events occurred in 2009 and were investigated by the AFL. IMO there is nothing that Burnouts raised in that interview that was particularly remarkable - except that now a few former MFC players/coaches/recruiter, all of whom clearly have an axe to grind with the MFC, are now also using it as an opportunity to take another pot shot at the club. If it gets to Court, it won't be good for the likes of Bozo Moloney. Take a moment to reflect on some of the "love of MFC development" / "future is bright" statements Bozo made between 2009 and 2011. Was he lying then - or now? Moloney's credibility will not last very long. This whole thing is becoming a circus which is taking a life of its own. And when that happens, it matters not where the truth lies. The media love this territory. For the sake of our club, don't buy into it. Stay united.

I don't reckon any of those clubs 'deliberately' lost (ie, tanked). Players talk. If those clubs sought to deliberately lose, it wouldn't be a secret for very long. Those clubs just knew they weren't in the premiership cycle, and rebuilt and evolved their respective lists at the time by plugging game time into younger players, not striving for finals during that period (ie, focussing more on development), and re-injecting talent into the club through better draft picks which they received because the system awards better picks to the clubs which are less competitive. No surprises that the clubs that restructured their lists the most effectively during such times then became the most successful. It's a cycle - and, importantly, it is designed to be. That said, I think it's a stretch to say any of those clubs went out of their way to lose (other than Carlton in one game - ie, round 22, 2007, when the result of the game was utterly meaningless but for the priority of picks that would occur immediately following it). We obviously went through a similar period. We just weren't astute or professional enough to manage the change as well as the others. Hence, we're still ordinary - but the path was no different. It was factors such as our ordinary culture, our lack of on-field leadership, and our poor recruitment and development during the period that held us back. Quite frankly, we weren't good enough to try and lose. And, in any event, Junior McDonald wouldn't have allowed that to happen on his watch. Companies restructure their balance sheets from time to time, retire debt, move employees into different roles, don't invest as much on certain things etc - it doesn't mean they are cheating or wish to become insolvent. They're just being astute and building towards future competitiveness. There's nothing wrong with this. And some are better at doing it than others. Yet, when an AFL club knows that it needs to rebuild its list, then it is apparently tanking. I just don't agree. People who play sport at this level are just too competitive - it's what got them there in the first place. Most of the bozo journos don't get this. In any event, they're looking for the sensationalist argument - it's what generates 20 pages on fan sites in one day. I'm sure Caroline Wilson hasn't ever read a book with small print and without pictures. To me, that says it all.

Round 10, 2012. Essendon 8 wins; 1 loss (to Collingwood by one point). Demons 0 wins. 9 losses. Demons win game with Garland playing a dominant forward key position role and an otherwise completely depleted forward line. Conclusion - surely Essendon tanked this game. What am I missing here?

Think we may have a few hostile witnesses on our hands here. Hopefully the AFL have the nous to consider their evidence in that light, particularly if it now contradicts what they had previously said (ie, during the period in which they were happily employed by the club). Dead set, I think this is all so bloody amateur. Caroline Wilson is to investigative journalism what Basil Fawlty is to quality hotel management. And don't get me started on Brock 'Burnouts' McLean. Surely that guy has zero credibility.

Were we tanking earlier this year when we played Rivers and Garland in the forward line? I think not. IMO it is actually okay to play players out of their traditional position. In fact, playing Dunn across half back saved his career.

And surely you'd have to be worried about the prospects of winning any case in which Brock McLean was your key witness. He'd be doing doughnuts in his Maloo outside the court house just before being called to give evidence.

Melbourne v Carlton - round 22, 2007 is the clearest example of tanking in any game in which I've ever seen the MFC participate. Pity it was Carlton that tanked it though. As a result, we got Cale Morton with pick 4. Carlton managed to get Kreuzer AND Judd. Straighten up Ms Wilson - you strike me as not particularly astute. Bring some balance to your reporting - at present, it's far too inductive. People may say she's an okay AFL journalist, but let's face it - sports journalism in this country sets a pretty low bar. In fact, I find the standard of all journalism to be depressingly bad in this country, but AFL journalism sets lows that make the weather systems over New York at the moment look like they might bring reasonably clear skies.

Facts. Gotta hate 'em.

You can add James Sellar to that list. He was pick 14 and is under 25 years old.

I'm personally disappointed about Gysberts. I actually don't think the club wanted to exit him this year, but we needed to get the Pedersen deal done, and, quite frankly, we didn't have much else to offer them given that pick 49 appeared not to be enough. If we get Ben Jacobs in the PSD, that should sweeten this trade, given that North were apparently red hot into Jacobs. As I understand it, all we need to do is match North's offer, and hope that GWS and GC pass on him, which I expect would be likely. This would also make up a bit for not landing Farren Ray IMO.

In terms of the player group and football department, check out the Swans, Geelong or the club at which Mark Neeld was previously the midfield coach. The players Neeld's exited this year would've been exited a lot earlier at these clubs. In fact, many of them wouldn't have been selected in the first place. Good clubs have a hard edged discipline about them. Until Neeld came along, ours did not.