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We should threaten WCE with this deal and then swap picks with them for a sweetener. They secure Rich and we get Watts at 2 with a little something on the side. But deals like these never happen, clubs don't trust other clubs to do what they say they are going to do.

What a thread. The opening post had a blatant contradiction and some replies were pure rubbish. The kid is 17, he is a CHF, and who gives a flying firetruck if he isn't available to play much until he is 19. We are the worst team in the comp, we can wait for him to become a gun. By the way, picking someone because it will keep the fans from whingeing is a ridiculous idea. Just delete the thread already, save some embarrassment.

A telling moment in the game came when we were stuffing around with the ball across the backline and the defensive wings with the usual culprits - Green, Bruce, White, Jones, Carroll, Wheatley, and Batram - just kicking it sideways waiting for someone to take the game on and one Simon Buckley dashes in between a few players and hits a target in the fwd line. The telling moment was Matty Whelan giving him a little clap, as if to say "well done kid, that's the gameplan." He plays bold Simon Buckley. The other players belie their arrogance off the field with their meekness on the field, and it's frustrating. The meek may inherent the earth, but they don't win footy games. Bailey has got instill some inner confidence to follow his bold gameplan of run and carry.

Thank Jeebus it's over. Awful end to the season as well. I really hope Bailey kills them in the gym and the track over summer, they deserve it. Positives out of the year would be the 180 degree turnarounds from Garland, Warnock, Miller, Buckley, Johnson (both) and to lesser extent Sylvia, Dunn, and Jamar. Two of the three wins were particulary special with the Freo game in the top 10 moments watching the Dees at the G for me. Developing players to hope for next year continuing their good start to their careers would be Morton, Grimes, Maric, Martin, Wonaeamirri, and Valenti. Alternatively, form reversals needed for Jones, Batram, Bate, Frawley, Bell, Meesen, and Newton. And an absence of injury required for McLean, Petterd, Moloney, Robertson, Rivers, and Davey. No reason to despair for next year and the future, but after last week you are forgiven for being a little, only a little, despondent.

No he has not ruled out trading any senior player, read some of the others in the thread who disagree. Rogue is spot on, and I harp on this every week it seems, senior players are expendable because they have value and they will not be around to win a flag for the Melbourne Football Club! Why anyone would be so desperate to keep the 'senior' 'leaders' around a club that has won 8 of the last 44 games is beyond me... Vulnerable to trade because they will not be around for our 'window': Bruce, Green, Wheatley, and Carroll.

Beamer was placed in the leadership group when they changed it mid-season. Not entirely sure, but I think he was placed in the group even after his shoulder ended his year. That kind of respect gets you patience with the coaching staff. I am not convinced that we cannot keep all 5 of those players long term. McLean - RR, Jones - Rover, Grimes - HBF, Moloney - IC, and Valenti in the 25. Injuries take their toll, personally I don't want them to get rid of any of the 5. But I hope Valenti agrees to another year on the RL and comes in for Macca so we can take pick 35 in the ND.

I got the impression he was not going to trade FOR senior players. And of coourse he is not going to say that senior players are on the market, it will unsettle everyone and dent his plans.

Watts is 17 FCS. He is underage playing in the comps he is playing so well in. He is the top KP prospect in the draft and Rich is no Judd from all accounts. Take Watts, if he nominates, and get our 2 development coaches to develop him. Brereton was a great CHF, he is an awful journalist. That does not mean he doesn't have insight though. But he has given me no solid reason not to go with a young promising CHF/FF.

BB was actually the bloke who gave Campbell Brown some toe, he was as slow as Benny Holland as a schoolkid, and now he can match it most at the highest level.

How about making the insignia red and blue coloured instead of all blue? If it was red and blue, would have made it different to Carlton and would have got my vote.

He was too expensive, too old, and we need people to cull - we still will find it difficult get rid of as many as the club wants - all this outweighs an 'insurance ruck' for the bottom team in the league. Warnock or no Warnock.

Perceptions change. I thought that Garland would be a certainty to be delisted - 21 rounds later and I think he can be an amazing CHB. Besides a good kick and motor, Bate has great hands and plays the lead up forward role better than any 21 year old in the AFL. You may say he doesn't play a true CHF, fair enough...but who does? He gets the second best defender every week and when Miller is up on the wing or playing crap or injured, Bate gets the No.1 defender. He is tougher than you realise, I hope he shows you something on Sunday. And if not, I guarantee you he will show it next year. Again I say - trade the older players before you trade a 21 year old. This is nothing more than common sense, just seems to be not that common...

Just as an aside - Lauded means praised, you might be thinking of loathed. Hopefully he can give Jones some toe. And Moloney. And Valenti. And McLean. And...well, I think you get the drift. Our midfield is slow. That's what i'm trying to say.

Bruce has been good this year but if a top 25 pick is offered - take it. THAT is not criticism, its the reality we face. As for the second paragraph, my god... Bate is 21 playing at CHB predominantly, he is too slow for a wing but as a lead up forward has shown he can mix it with the best. His 4 goal game against the Swans was great. "Fails in big games"?!?!?! What big game would that be? We are 3 and 18 FCS!! and last year, when he was 20, we were 5 and 17. Bate is the kind of player that in our position, were he at another club, we should target during trade week. We are last, have won 8 of our last 44 games and people want to keep good 28 year olds over promising 21 year olds?!?! A few here need a reality check.

I wonder how many of you, who are acclaiming our rich and long history, know that at an early stage the MFC was known as the 'invincible whites.' And this wasn't a reference to an exclusion of aborigines but because of the colour of the jumpers they wore. Both are fine. Voted A, but B has some class to it.

Not off the top of my head but Capuano was paid out mid-season so I don't think there would be a time limit to when you can pay out a contract. It should be a clubs right, it's their money.

I don't know about that but if he is we may just pay him out. He can't be on much and for all our awfulness it is still difficult to find enough players to cull.

People need to read a lot less Patrick Smith. The President and the board has been in charge for about 4 months. The coach, Football Manager, 2 assistants, and 2 development coaches have been here 9 months. You don't ruin a culture in 4 months, especially when its already "nothing" as the AFL told Gardner. We need people who are passionate about the club, and people will say "he already turned us down, how does that show commitment?" Unlike Fox, who turned us down twice and went and asked the AFL whether we were worthy of him, Schwab wanted a break from footy and was unsure of his desire to leap back into a CEO position. Hopefully he is going somewhere quiet until October, and then he needs to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Grinter was a runner for about six years until 2006. So he had a role at the club before this 'cabal' was formed. Thankyou for the clarification of your post at the end, I knew you weren't joking, you weren't making any sense but you weren't joking. BTW, of your previous post - Freo right now is in the strongest position it has ever been so maybe you should build your argument around the facts not the other way 'round.

The club is rightly thinking that in 2011, the third year, that Brad Green might not be in the best 22 and they do not want the salary cap strained by a thirty year old on $450k! That is where we are at with White and Yze, and the club knows its talent is young and it has to plan accordingly. And walk where? The PSD will be us, WCE, Freo, and PA. He wouldn't risk it and we will get a decent trade if he is set in going. Whether we should trade him is another question entirely, and alot has already been said.

So the core of our young team will be 27, 28, and 32? Get another development coach if our talented youngsters need guidance (we already have 2), if a 1st rounder is on offer Prendergast should take it. If we do the right thing with our recruiting, I doubt in 2011 that either Green or Bruce will be in best 22. Or be an emergency.

What should be our policy concerning our playing list if not based on youth? Our list, apart from our kids, is shallow and past their best. What a pointless thread.

More valuable? The Unknown Quantity. Welcome to a rebuild - tough decisions and educated gambles.

He is contracted until 2010, and I doubt he has any value at the trade table. He's not going anywhere.

If they are 27 and 28 respectively I would. They are too old to be around for our next tilt, our talent is young and we should strengthen with 18 to 22 year olds now so that we have our best chance of a flag. The fabric of the club may be torn by trading Green, but who cares. The fabric means nothing according to the AFL, is $5m in debt, and was coloured silver for 4 games this year. It's already ripped to shreds. Seriously, if you think that Brad Green leaving will hurt more than Woey, you have short memories or you are just searching for arguments to give an irresponsible $450k three year deal to a 27 year old.