rpfc

This. 2016 is as good as we are getting and I will take it. If he stays...

Actions speak louder than words (however they are interpreted). If he stays - he is willing to improve and listen to the coaches instructions. If he goes - he wants to go somewhere that values him more than we have valued him. Because of his contract situation - he can make the decision he wants to make. It would be very difficult now for him to stay at a club that wants him to leave, but he can make that decision if he wishes. It is not without precedent.

Not here to defend jumbo. Don't like it when history gets rewritten. End of story.

You are claiming it as a joke after the fact, that's a Level 4 offence on Land, book him @Nasher...

You are either showing your age or your emotional maturity - no player has copped more than Jack Watts on this board or with MFC fans.

Yeah, everything's a nail to a hammer.

*something witty but heavily saying no* Doesn't really deserve an actual response...

I once asked TGR whether he preferred to win a flag or for him to be right. He chose the latter.

*Eleven

All would have a 'canned' answer like that ready to be copied and pasted into Comms. Change management 101.

There is no need for either of the above. I have reservations over this move if it eventuates but my reservations are in the best interests of the club. How is encouraging mutiny among members and threatening the club, or fermenting ill will amongst aggrieved members going to help the club win the flag?

He is referring to the Dees player in the middle there, who is obviously still a Tigers supporter...

Can't lose something we never had... I understand the frustration of many when they see a group of players from another club that is seen as commensurately talented as us take out the whole thing - and you are right it is their team ethos of frenetic pressure that they have fully committed to that is driving their success. We had it going in the early part of the season and it fell away and I might dig deeper into why it fell away if I have some time to look at the numbers but we just looked tired tbh. And we had a few ill timed injuries and our forward line never settled - and that is where the frenzy of pressure needs to begin. I think we can win the whole thing without Watts but I also am ambivalent about needing to 'send a message' to the playing group. The Tigers didn't need a message (Deledio leaving is not a message), they needed full belief in the direction, the ability and fitness to execute, and trust in their teammates to commit as much as the next man. We can argue over the trust that Watts deserves to commit, that's fine, but as I am trying to scream into my monitor for the last week - removing that question mark is a really, really small part of closing the gap to the Tigers, the Swans, the Crows, et al. I think our best 6 players are a couple years away from those teams best 6, I think our depth are also behind those teams, we also seemed to run out of fuel, struggled with basic discipline, and we hadn't quite perfected how we want to play high risk handpass happy game plan of bringing the ball forward.

Watts doesn't have the physicality to play that role. He can swing down there off a wing and embarrass Taylor Adams going both ways but if Watts was playing defence all day I would isolate him and play his man one-on-one and that would be that.

But seriously, you are absolutely right - he is not a top 15 player; our fortunes will rise and fall with our core group of players and our midfield. What I know is that this team needs some outside skill and vision and the FD just have to get a replacement for the role that is earmarked for Watts. If they strike out then I would not trade him. No emotions required.

Mate, shut up, I am trying to up his value!

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders... One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

If that is the case, maybe we should look at recruiting that tall fella with application issues who has elite skills and had a ripper 2016? Seriously though, as @Clint Bizkit says later in this thread, you and Goodwin are talking like we will give him up for absolutely anything from the club of his choice. That is not how you build and maintain a list. He has 5 years of good footy left in him if a club backs themselves to get him in the mindset he had the most of the last two seasons. I will not accept, as a supporter and member and Lander, any old pick for Jack Watts.

Yes, just make sure he doesn't attend any high school box socials or whatever it is kids do these days.

I couldn't imagine getting a decent deal for him. Goodwin might have to knock back a shot or two for the presser straight after; he is going to have to be passionate, conciliatory, thankful for Jacks time at the club, and give a clear picture for his vision for 2018 and beyond without leaving Watts as the scapegoat for all the ills of the club. Good luck to him, lol. And, to satiate Demons like me, he is going to have to find me a skilful outside player next week.

Didn't.

So he should 'go' for never being involved? That's some next level thinking right there...

Some plodders in that Tigers team today... but they committed to the frenzy and trusted their teammates. Grigg, Houli and Edwards have all been labelled soft over their journey... Role players get taken on the coat tails of singular talent to flags, so stop worrying about Watts, Vanders, et al; do we have the star power? It's a different thread but it's the only thread...

It's funny how people see different things - I saw a Grand Final that was won by a frenetic side that had a couple of class skilful players forward of the ball doing all the damage. Shaun Edwards is not the hardest of players but he committed to the frenzy and the Tigers were rewarded with his vision and skill. I get why Watts is ostensibly seen as 'anti-finals footy' but I don't know about that. Won't know until it happens I suppose.

Lever and ?????