rpfc

*something witty but heavily saying no* Doesn't really deserve an actual response...

I once asked TGR whether he preferred to win a flag or for him to be right. He chose the latter.

*Eleven

All would have a 'canned' answer like that ready to be copied and pasted into Comms. Change management 101.

There is no need for either of the above. I have reservations over this move if it eventuates but my reservations are in the best interests of the club. How is encouraging mutiny among members and threatening the club, or fermenting ill will amongst aggrieved members going to help the club win the flag?

He is referring to the Dees player in the middle there, who is obviously still a Tigers supporter...

Can't lose something we never had... I understand the frustration of many when they see a group of players from another club that is seen as commensurately talented as us take out the whole thing - and you are right it is their team ethos of frenetic pressure that they have fully committed to that is driving their success. We had it going in the early part of the season and it fell away and I might dig deeper into why it fell away if I have some time to look at the numbers but we just looked tired tbh. And we had a few ill timed injuries and our forward line never settled - and that is where the frenzy of pressure needs to begin. I think we can win the whole thing without Watts but I also am ambivalent about needing to 'send a message' to the playing group. The Tigers didn't need a message (Deledio leaving is not a message), they needed full belief in the direction, the ability and fitness to execute, and trust in their teammates to commit as much as the next man. We can argue over the trust that Watts deserves to commit, that's fine, but as I am trying to scream into my monitor for the last week - removing that question mark is a really, really small part of closing the gap to the Tigers, the Swans, the Crows, et al. I think our best 6 players are a couple years away from those teams best 6, I think our depth are also behind those teams, we also seemed to run out of fuel, struggled with basic discipline, and we hadn't quite perfected how we want to play high risk handpass happy game plan of bringing the ball forward.

Watts doesn't have the physicality to play that role. He can swing down there off a wing and embarrass Taylor Adams going both ways but if Watts was playing defence all day I would isolate him and play his man one-on-one and that would be that.

But seriously, you are absolutely right - he is not a top 15 player; our fortunes will rise and fall with our core group of players and our midfield. What I know is that this team needs some outside skill and vision and the FD just have to get a replacement for the role that is earmarked for Watts. If they strike out then I would not trade him. No emotions required.

Mate, shut up, I am trying to up his value!

To be perfectly honest, Lever doesn't excite me, but I am a forward and have issues rating defenders... One thing that does excite me as a coach is when you get to take a burden off a player and release them and that is what I see Lever doing for Hibberd. If we can get Hibberd 30m further up the ground when he is gathering the footy and have to be come across and provide help all the time - he will be transcendant. Might take some attention of Hunt too...

If that is the case, maybe we should look at recruiting that tall fella with application issues who has elite skills and had a ripper 2016? Seriously though, as @Clint Bizkit says later in this thread, you and Goodwin are talking like we will give him up for absolutely anything from the club of his choice. That is not how you build and maintain a list. He has 5 years of good footy left in him if a club backs themselves to get him in the mindset he had the most of the last two seasons. I will not accept, as a supporter and member and Lander, any old pick for Jack Watts.

Yes, just make sure he doesn't attend any high school box socials or whatever it is kids do these days.

I couldn't imagine getting a decent deal for him. Goodwin might have to knock back a shot or two for the presser straight after; he is going to have to be passionate, conciliatory, thankful for Jacks time at the club, and give a clear picture for his vision for 2018 and beyond without leaving Watts as the scapegoat for all the ills of the club. Good luck to him, lol. And, to satiate Demons like me, he is going to have to find me a skilful outside player next week.

Didn't.

So he should 'go' for never being involved? That's some next level thinking right there...

Some plodders in that Tigers team today... but they committed to the frenzy and trusted their teammates. Grigg, Houli and Edwards have all been labelled soft over their journey... Role players get taken on the coat tails of singular talent to flags, so stop worrying about Watts, Vanders, et al; do we have the star power? It's a different thread but it's the only thread...

It's funny how people see different things - I saw a Grand Final that was won by a frenetic side that had a couple of class skilful players forward of the ball doing all the damage. Shaun Edwards is not the hardest of players but he committed to the frenzy and the Tigers were rewarded with his vision and skill. I get why Watts is ostensibly seen as 'anti-finals footy' but I don't know about that. Won't know until it happens I suppose.

Lever and ?????

I am happy to draft 'non-altar boys' but here is a bloke that allegedly cheated on his wife-to-be and mother of his children with schoolgirls. Plural. Not the same as a wayward teenage Martin. If Dusty had done that before he was drafted, it would not even be the same - he would have been screwing schoolgirls as a schoolboy...

I would ask the leadership group whether it could work - gut feel, that in 2017, that LG would say 'let's talk to him but we don't think so.'

Posters who tell me 'X hasn't done anything for X amount of years' are not allowed to critique the terrible development standards we have had since time immemorial, the Bailey 'no defence needed' years, or the Neeld 'let's not go there' years. Stay with some relevance, we began again as a club in 2014.

I just had visions of morning talk back with the CEO/coach/prez of the club that recruits him. Value went down with that article.

Wow, that'll affect the value they get back...

I would keep him (for the proposed trades) and I don't even think he will propell us anywhere. Team balance is becoming important now that Oliver, Viney, T Mac, Hibberd, Petracca , etc are propelling us up the ladder. I am a coach and I have won flags with 'soft' blokes you 'gotta get rid of', there are roles for different types of players who specialise in different aspects of the game. Love me some role players (I was one).