Wiseblood

I wouldn't have thought so. They need more KPP's, can't argue with that, but you still need to be able to get the ball to them, and Jack Steven is their best midfielder. He might be the only player with real currency but I can't see them trading away their best mid.

Even with last weeks performance I don't feel as though we are a side who will easily roll over anymore, although it was only a month ago where the Cats and Freo beat us very, very easily, so outside of the Port game we aren't exactly in terrific form. All I want is for the players this week to have a real crack and make Hawthorn earn it for 4 quarters. I'm not exactly optimistic we can do that but it's the best I can hope for really.

At least Gunston is out, he was liable to kick a rather large bag on us this week.

How many posts will it be before someone says Carlton will probably get rid of him and we should have a look at getting him on our list? It's bound to happen... where is Mike Nolan when we need him?

That's fantastic... but don't pull the holier than thou stuff, it's ridiculous. After last week's debacle and knowing just how good the Hawks are many posters, me included, have every right to be pessimistic about this game. I'd love to win every week but it's not as if the odds are stacked in our favour. You're welcome to be optimistic, and I admire that, but don't be a [censored] and have a crack at others for having a differing view point as it just makes you look like a fool.

Pedersen was in getting surgery on his nose today, so I think his omission has more to do with that than anything else. Happy with the changes, and as others have mentioned you could probably say guys like Blease, Tapscott and McKenzie (even though he is contracted for 2015) have had their papers 'stamped' so to speak. Not looking forward to this game at all other than the fact that it brings us one game closer to the end of the season.

I heard a rumour you're an idiot... don't attack me though, I only heard it....

Agree with the first part in terms of ROK - would bring plenty to the club, but the game may well and truly have passed him by. Roos would know more but I don't have huge faith in his abilities anymore. I don't think Garlett would be someone worth bringing in to the club. Flashy, inconsistent and wouldn't really fit the Roos mould either.

I think there is some truth to that, although to hear Roos say there are players who are not listening even lends itself to the idea of recruiting more experience at the top end to show the younger fellas what it's all about. It's one thing to tell them, but to have others to demonstrate every day at training and on game day is something else altogether. As I said before, the recruitment of a mature age player would need to be a strategic - if there is no one out there who Roos thinks would be beneficial to the list then I have no doubt he won't recruit them. But if someone comes up for the right price who can bring something valuable to our list while still contributing to a good level (eg. Malceski) then I also have no doubt that Roos will go hard to recruit them. Edit - And you only need to read the article on how hard Cross has worked to come back from his injury and the example that sets and you realise that having a guy with that experience and work ethic on our list can only be a good thing. If the opportunity to get another player like Cross comes along then I would hope the club has no hesitation in taking them.

The players we have out for surgery have either been there since earlier in the year (Trengove) or have no bearing on the make up of the team (Byrnes, Spencer). He is talking out of his back pocket, to put if kindly.

On the flip side of that we still need an extra player or two around that range who can work with Cross and Vince to model the right training habits, work ethic on the field and to impart some knowledge on them as well. Sounds a bit cliche but we still lack those types of players at the minute. We would need to be very strategic about who it is we might get and how we get them but I don't think Roos will totally ignore players around that age range.

Sums it up perfectly. The players WANT to win but can't get to that point as they just expect to be beaten, even when we're in front and playing okay. Going to take some work to turn that around.

I'm with you on this one. Read it late last night and wasn't fussed at all. She isn't having a crack, just merely elaborating on the comments Roos has made. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I think now it's totally clear that Watts is not a forward. He just doesn't do enough up there, and he also doesn't add much when he has those stints on the ball. Sticking him on half back would make him more accountable and allow him to use his skills to better effect.

And our problem is that the brain fades are horrendous - it's not as if we look poor for a few minutes, cough up goals and then right the ship. When teams get a run on they smash us and we still find it hard to stem that flow and turn the tide back in our direction. Good stat though RD, and it shows that there is genuine improvement for us. We all want wins, me included, but we are certainly headed in the right direction to reap the rewards of the hard work the players are putting in.

The improvement is clear - the play from last year was never going to be eliminated from last season by simply adding a few new players and a new game plan. The traits learned were always going to take time to get rid of. We have played some terrific footy this year on a regular basis and we've been in more games than we've been for 4 years. To say there is no obvious improvement is short sighted and merely a reflection of how we are feeling after Sunday's game.

Don't you get it Nasher? One bad loss means that 95% of the list are complete shite and deserve to be smashed from pillar to post.

I agree in part Steve, although Bird brings so much else to the club that, if he were on the table for the right price, we would have been mad to overlook him. But I also see your point as well, just thought you were selling Bird a little short in your summation of him.

Minimal role? I think you're selling him short. I'll admit he isn't exactly a game breaker type but the bloke averages over 20 touches a game to go with 5 tackles. He is a bloke who works incredibly hard to get the best out of himself and would be an instant upgrade on at least half of our list. Not everyone we get has to be an A grade talent, and we won't necessarily attract those, but someone like Craig Bird would be more than welcome on our list IMO. It's a moot point now anyway with him re-signing but he would have been a terrific addition to our list.

Yeah because chasing a bloke who is best 22 in a potential premiership side isn't injecting our list with talent. Bird might not set the world on fire but he would be someone who would help to make our side better.

I'm certain that we can draft some very good players and also get our hands on some decent talent through the FA and trading period as well. The change isn't going to happen overnight, and there is still more to it than just the list, but getting players in with the right mindset who haven't been in the club can only help us in the short and long term.

We simply need to turn over the list at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. We have the people in charge, this time, who will be able to instill the right values in them so we don't have this happen again. For some on our list the way back seems to be too far.

As I said, wasn't saying you're wrong, just that I've heard differently from a few people.

That would be in direct contrast to the fact that he was very well liked and respected down at North. Not saying you're wrong, just doesn't seem to fit.

That frustration is evident, but not misplaced either. This mob deserve to be spoken about in those terms and it's merely further evidence that many who are still currently out of contract won't be offered a new one.