grazman

A good read Jack... I concur.

There's a reason that he was offered up for trade last year... You can't build a side around idiots. It's why Trav was traded, it's also why his currency was a lot less than most supporters were prepared to admit. Carroll has the next four months to change things, but like I said... idiots...

A very female way of looking at it Jaded. Of course as a male he may have a different perspective. I'll deal with it myself without help from anyone else - because I'm a man and men are strong and independent and stuff, and if that doesn't work, I'll just break something! He got a one match ban, which would indicate that he stuffed up, but only moderately in the eyes of the leadership group. He accepted responsibility and hopefully will be a better footballer and person for it.

It depends on how serious the relationship was. Relationship breakups can be incredibly traumatic, I find it a lot more palatable that there were at least extenuating circumstances for the breach, rather than just a random act of stupidity. Of course following the breakup he may well have gone and hit the sauce pretty badly as well. It's not surprising that he didn't tell anyone at the club, he should have, but I can understand why he wouldn't have. All that said he still has to abide by the rules and he's taken his medicine now, let's wait and see if he repays the faith.

I think this says more about you than it does about Colin....

This is the most logical and coherent comparative analysis I've read on here in a while 45HG!! FWIW I agree completely. Too many people are pre-judging a season that hasn't even started. The "See I told you we were [censored]!" trophy is all ready adorning a few mantle pieces and we haven't played a serious game in anger.

At the time the curfew was announced, I optimistically thought the leadership group were trying to avoid potential problems that had affected other clubs and codes in nightclub districts... but I suspect now that this was probably not the first time during the preseason that a player was out getting 'ripped' - hence the need to impose the 1 am time frame.

I think what it shows is that there's probably been a "cultural" problem at the club in terms of this sort of behaviour in the past. The club is now doing something about fixing the problem. It's disappointing that players are taking so long to change their ways, but it shouldn't be too unexpected, particularly if they've gotten away with it in the past. This reflects badly on the club, and flies in the face of the notion of "professional" footballers. We're making the news, but for all the wrong reasons. I hope that there's more involved in terms of punishment than the five large and the one match, I'm more than happy that the decision is being made by the leadership group, but I also hope the DB and CC are taking these offenders aside and counselling them in no uncertain terms.

I know a few who were surprised that we took Valenti with our last pick, and apparently there was some pretty strong leaning by Mark Williams in this regard, but it seems rather astute to me. He looks the most likely of all our Rookies to make the transition straight into senior ranks... given the lack of preparation by some of our midfield in some ways it's a pity he's not on the senior list now, because his pre-season form would have him in line for a possible debut. He lacks leg speed, and his kicking lacks some penetration, but he knows how to find the footy and he's tough. From the weekend reports the transition back to Sandy has seen him take a further step past where he was last year.

There was a honeymoon? I think Bails knew exactly what he was getting into... to be fair the man inherited the current list (which isn't as bad as many make out, but it does have its problems) and gave everyone on it a new start to press their claims... over the next 6 months he'll see enough to know who to hold onto and who to trade/delist. Some of us (including myself) already have some tickets stamped, but I think Bails will want to see what's what when the real stuff starts.

Keep up the good fight Finks!!! "The MFC Rocks My World And A Premiership's On The Way."

Yet some people are bitter over trading Trav... go figure... The club's moving forward. I don't mind rational informed arguments, but much of what has been written about the preseason is simply chicken little stuff. Danny Corcoran once said that things in footy are never as bad or as good as you think they are.

At least after Rd one we'll be able to make some objective rational assessments based on a game that actually matters rather than have all the 'Marvin the Robot' comments about how bleak the future looks.

Hmmm - personally I doubt that the talent pool is deep enough to sustain 18 teams... (and this point is not about footy per se), but what concerned me more was the continued expansion of gated communities.... It's indicative of an 'Us" and 'Them' mentality and cannot bode well for the future.

I think Bruce, Spencer and Grimes will be the ones that miss if that's the case.

You only have to look at Robbie's performances when he played for Victoria to realise in a good side he was one of the best... he didn't do it just once - he was always in the best players every time he played for Victoria in very, very strong teams. Call me parochial, but as much as many North fans admire Schimma, Flower would give him a bath every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I know many non-dees who feel the same way. It's Mike's list so it's his call, but if you look up "The Encyclopedia of League Footballers" the first paragraph on Robert Flower says it all: "Acknowledged as the best player in the VFL, pound for pound, over one and a half decades of consumate artistry." Robbie Flower represents everything that is worth watching in football. Anyone that wouldn't have him in their top 20 should go and watch some tapes and come back with their tales between their legs. I'd also prefer someone like Jack Dyer's assessment of Barassi compared to Whitten. Dyer regarded Barassi as the real Mr Football - Whitten was better at selling himself, RDB just cared about winning - something that Ted rarely achieved even in his time with the big V.

There's a very strong suspicion at Hawkland that McGlynn has OP and definately won't be available round 1. For those not in the know Williams has a very bad degenerative knee and reports are that he's been very proppy in the pre-season.

Then I'm completely lost as to the point you're trying to make... I'd also love to have the likes of Cox, Rutten, Bock, to plug our holes plus a host of other players that were overlooked on more than one occasion by every club in the league. Our potential KPP backs are Rivers, Carroll, Frawley, Miller, Garland, Holland, Warnock, McNamara and Martin. The first five are probably our best bets to hold down a KPP this year in the back line.

I like Egan - he's hard at it and fits in nicely as part of a very tight defensive unit, but he has the benefit of having both Scarlett and Harley to work with, plus the big bodies of Hunt and Rooke (when fit) with Milburn playing as the sweeper. I still don't see the comparison though. If we'd passed on him with our first pick he would have been gone by our second - who from 2006 are you advocating is a better KPP prospect that we missed? Egan's had three years to develop, Gilbert two, and Jim just the one. The stats from their first season would indicate there's not a lot of difference in it. If your judges have queries about why he won't fill out to be a KPP I'd like to know why. He has height, mobility, speed and courage. His kicking action is ungainly but effective. IMO he reads the play a lot better than many of our other KPP options. Here's the stats for the three in their first season: Egan: 15 games avg 6.9 disp and 2.7 marks (2005) Gilbert 2 games avg 6.5 disp and 1.5 marks (2006) Frawley 9 games avg 7.4 disp and 2.4 marks. (2007)

Frawley was taken much too early yet you're plumbing for Gilbert and Egan. West Coast would've taken Frawley which means he wouldn't have been there for our second pick - so I'm not sure it was much too early. We got both Jim and Ricky with our first two picks, both will be very good players for the club. I'm sure Petterd will develop into a very smart rebounding HBF/BP.

A good read for you Schtack if you're not too busy jumping at shadows. http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/general/j...4227048471.html?

Beau Muston Hawthorn- Probable ACL

He'd like some, others would need more time to be answered and others - well... IMO if clubs aren't delisting/trading out at least five blokes at the years end (not counting rookies) then they're not fair dinkum.

I think you're on the right track B. Though to my way of thinking It's not so much the opposition coaches they're asking questions of, rather their players and seeing what they'll deliver. I've been very impressed with Bailey. In Canberra he made the point of saying when you train players you push them beyond their comfort levels, bring them back then push them again. My impression is that besides a competitive hit out, Bails see the practice matches as an extension of training. A lot on here can't see the forest for the trees, they're worrying about the scoreboard in games where the scoreboard doesn't matter. He's asking questions of the list and getting answers.

and then the Swans lost to the Tigers... so at least we're better than the Swans.