grazman

I'm super impressed by Bailey. He's not fazed, he absolutely believes in what he's doing and I'm prepared to back him in. To be brutally honest the crap that other sides have thrown at us about being soft and downhill skiers is true - Bailey is teaching us to be hard again - it'll take time and probably take quite a few casualties, but I like his approach even if I don't like the current results.

I'm despondent, another performance like that and I'll officially be depressed. My wife is from NSW -so she doesn't understand why I get so upset about a game. I see the President was quoting Midnight Oil in his luncheon address...Apologies to any Radiohead fans, but "My Club's got the bends, we don't have any real friends I'm just lying in a bar with my drip feed on talking to my girlfriend waiting for something to happen and I wish it was the sixties I wish I could be happy, I wish, I wish, I wish something would happen.."

Ahh this shits me... so winning games of footy is stupid now.... a pox on Carlton and their supporters for cheering the loss.

Yes but they have one win already and play us twice....

He's a 300 game player for our club, our leading goal kicker and one of the precious few senior players that leads by example.... he wanted to play on - he was far from our worst today. It's obviously his last season and it looks as if we're going to struggle anyway. I'd be more concerned about the future of some of our younger players after today's performance rather than Neita's.

Exactly Tess. I think Bailey will be a little more hard nosed about these things.

What a load of crap. You don't like Bruce - big deal. What would Cyril Rioli have done for us today other than go missing like three quarters of the rest of our side. The Hawks were good tonight, and it kills me to see the player we almost had in Sewell continue to carve up opposition sides - but we don't and there's no point bitching about it.

Just so you don't feel alone SBT... I was also in the Wells for Sylvia camp... this year should provide us a very good indication of where both are at. Sylvia of course was out for disciplinary reasons and Wells by his own admission needs to be consistently better.

The good version or the broken one?

Another theory maybe that neither Moloney or Petterd played according to instructions (lack of accountability)- actually I'd prefer this because it would mean regardless of how many possessions you get, you better do what your told or start learning at Sandy.

Jerry I think it's a valid concern, and one I'm sure a lot of people have been thinking a fair bit about. Certainly I think we'll see a fair amount of chest beating and finger pointing over the next couple of weeks if we get another couple of those results. Unfortunately there are no easy answers. Firstly I like the youngster's you've nominated for the leadership group and would probably add Bell to it as well, but disagree with you in part about Miller. Here's my take on the situation - and without wanting to sound like an "I know boats" prat, I have had a bit of background in both leadership training and practice courtesy of professional experience (though sometimes as a reluctant participant) and as a football captain and coach. The situation the club is in has been long identified, under a new coach they've chosen a new path, but the end result I guess is the same- it was only natural that the most senior and experienced players were elected because in looking at group dynamics that's the norm rather than the exception. Given where our list is I don't see that apart from Green there were any other genuine alternatives. In Footy a leader needs to be the following: 1. Good (top ten in the B&F) 2. Courageous 2. Selfless 3. Responsible 4. Honest 5. Obedient Communication skills are also an asset. Now we can judge the current leadership group against those criteria fairly harshly and we can argue the toss about players like Miller - who I think is a good leader - till the cows come home; but the alternative is to promote a group that aren't ready ahead of their time and potentially have a different set of problems. We need to get it right, the club has put a process in place to develop leaders at the club, it's pretty clear there'll be some short term pain (but hopefully some of the current batch will step up), and it's what many of us have known for a while would happen until the younger players are ready to assume the mantle.

Who do we play in Rd 22.... D'ohhh.

I think it's a legitimate question, and as I said to a friend on Sunday, if Danners was still coaching we might not have lost by that much either, but at the end of the day it would still have meant nothing. I've heard a fair bit about Sheedy since then and I'm glad we didn't appoint him - He's got too many other interests now. I'm with Why You Little.... there were no excuses for our performance on Sunday and there's no hiding from just how bad we were and what we need to do to improve.

IMO -No. I think he'll be good, but to me he lacks confidence and is overweight. I think he's where Flash was 12 mths before he was drafted. He needs a good solid season in the VFL to feel like he belongs at the next level.

I hope Col spent a good hour looking at himself after that shizen yestereday and repeated to himself as a mantra "I will make amends!"

Dunn with four goals to half time (bet most of them were shots from outside fifty too) playing on the ball is music to my ears, even if it's only a VFL praccy game, it shows intent to continue to play him in a role we badly need. We need some bulk and speed through the middle - I'm probably getting carried away, but there are aspects to this boys game that are very, very exciting.

Absolutely. And his attitude isn't about not caring or not trying, it's as much about confidence and belief - but the end result is the same.

6 Moloney 5 McLean 4 Miller 3 Johnson 2 Jones 1 Buckley

I disagree. Apart from Yze I thought he was easily our worst. He didn't chase, didn't harass and generally didn't want to go near a contest. He has the attributes to make a very good footballer, but at the moment he needs to adjust himself mentally to the tempo of playing against men.

Weetra was there to play Davey's forward role.

No it's got to be four games or less for two consecutive years. We won five last year. If we only win three this year, then we are in line for the following year - much the same as the blues were.

Actually I doubt that's true. There's a fairly quantifiable gap in ability between the two, but Carroll's tactics are pretty standard for backmen, that or he and Buddy have had a prior disagreement in relation to their 'associates'.

I don't disagree with that at all Tigger. We got enough first hands on the ball, we had enough forward fifties to win a game etc. What the stats don't show is the hand pass that goes over the team mates head standing three feet away, the 25 meter pass that misses a team mate by 10 meters and goes directly to an opponent, the failure to break even the most limp wristed of tackles. The problem with Stats is people try to draw some line through them to come up with something significant. Twenty years ago the team with the most possessions won the game of football, now it just means they're playing keepings off until they eventually turn it over.

No we weren't - Contested ball was even, so were clearances. We were however, comprehensively thrashed in loose ball gets and contested marks. They ran harder, they ran faster and basically used the ball better than we did. Our skills were deplorable . No surprises there given that one member of the leadership group rather than pushing back off the mark chooses to try and spot up a team mate of one step and has the ball smothered and the Hawks clean up the spillage and kick the goal. If you want a useless stat, how about Travis Johnstone's 9 effective disposals out of 20 (incl 6 Clangers) for the Lions - still got named in the Lions best though - go figure.

Out: Weetra, Newton, Yze In: Rivers, Sylvia, Dunn.