grazman

Yep Byron gets my vote too. The fact that he actually played a senior AFL game in his situation last year was embarrassment enough. The most unfit footballer I've ever seen take the field.

My theory is that in an effort to pump up the tyres of their wagon Carlton have gone too early with Judd. I haven't seen the match, but I'd be interested to know Hards from yourself and others how he played. Others have stated he looked only 50% fit and at times looked to be in pain. Given DB's philosophy with players and injuries I doubt he would've played if he'd been with us. I am a complete sceptic when it comes to blokes playing on dodgy groins - either they're right or they're not. Playing through pain is one thing, but if it's on overuse injury like OP then according to all the current indications and trends he will simply continue to aggravate the problem to the point where he was last year, or potentially worse.

Doubt it... the club didn't seek and exemption for him to play.

Bate and Dunn are both 192 as is Morton. They are all capable of playing in the midfield and kicking goals from Beyond fifty, if we can develop the likes Newton or Garland as a KPP, then we are going to have a very handy attacking set up.

Only White, Carroll, Green and Bruce took more marks last year... Bate is a good mark. He's not Jonathon Brown, but for a kid that's still only 20 I think he goes alright.

I'd say that's more to do with our poor list management.

Which is pretty much how much Neita averaged for last year as well, but I digest... Bate's a good mark, if you want him to take 12 a game play across the HBF.

I do and I can understand why plenty of other Dees fans do as well. He chose Carlton over us... He chose the bad guys over the good guys. Financially it maybe the right thing to do... but Karma's a [censored]. We'll know by about rd 4 whether they chose the right surgery.

Thanks Zebraman It's always good to get a relatively impartial view. Personally I have no real problem with the alliance and I think it's been beneficial for both parties - particularly the likes of Warnock, Martin and Valenti that may never have made it onto an AFL list without that partnership. I think people are getting carried away with the development of players.... afterall the captain himself said he'd gladly step down from FF when someone better qualified came along. Newton didn't take over from Sautner, he hasn't taken over from Neita - there are still flaws in his game that need to be worked on. My feeling is that the lack of development in the past has had more to do with the lack of coaching resources than a lack of opportunities. If they were good enough Sandy would play them in that position.

You mean if he could mark like Matty Bate? I agree.

I'm not sure how many (if any) players with limited preseasons so my list looks a little different. Certainties: Bell, Carroll, Green, Robertson, Neitz, Davey, Moloney, McLean, Jones, McDonald, White, Probables: Wheatley, Buckley, Miller, Dunn, Petterd, PJ, Possibles: Bruce, Rivers, Newton, Batram, Frawley, Morton, Jamar, Meesen, Garland, Bode, Yze, Holland, CJ Of the possibles I'd have the first five to round out the 22. I wouldn't have Yze simply because his form and disposal in the pre-season has been ordinary. that leaves a side that looks like this: Bell, Carroll, Bartram Wheatley, Miller, Rivers Dunn, McDonald, Moloney Bruce, Newton, Robertson Davey, Neitz, Green White, McLean, Jones Petterd, Buckley, PJ, Frawley

As for Bruce playing next week - In previous years I'd say it would almost be a certainty. He is probably our best endurance runner... the only unknown is whether DB wont play blokes that haven't completed a certain amount of pre-season work. I have high hopes for Dunn. I was very impressed with his tagging jobs last year, he still found plenty of the ball himself and can roost a goal from outside fifty. He's a tank now and can play forward if needed. He adds a lot of versatility. I'd certainly have Wheatley in my starting 22 for Sunday. I'll be very interested to see if Riv and Bartman are included as DB was suggested a while ago it was looking about rd 3 for both.

A good read Jack... I concur.

There's a reason that he was offered up for trade last year... You can't build a side around idiots. It's why Trav was traded, it's also why his currency was a lot less than most supporters were prepared to admit. Carroll has the next four months to change things, but like I said... idiots...

A very female way of looking at it Jaded. Of course as a male he may have a different perspective. I'll deal with it myself without help from anyone else - because I'm a man and men are strong and independent and stuff, and if that doesn't work, I'll just break something! He got a one match ban, which would indicate that he stuffed up, but only moderately in the eyes of the leadership group. He accepted responsibility and hopefully will be a better footballer and person for it.

It depends on how serious the relationship was. Relationship breakups can be incredibly traumatic, I find it a lot more palatable that there were at least extenuating circumstances for the breach, rather than just a random act of stupidity. Of course following the breakup he may well have gone and hit the sauce pretty badly as well. It's not surprising that he didn't tell anyone at the club, he should have, but I can understand why he wouldn't have. All that said he still has to abide by the rules and he's taken his medicine now, let's wait and see if he repays the faith.

I think this says more about you than it does about Colin....

This is the most logical and coherent comparative analysis I've read on here in a while 45HG!! FWIW I agree completely. Too many people are pre-judging a season that hasn't even started. The "See I told you we were [censored]!" trophy is all ready adorning a few mantle pieces and we haven't played a serious game in anger.

At the time the curfew was announced, I optimistically thought the leadership group were trying to avoid potential problems that had affected other clubs and codes in nightclub districts... but I suspect now that this was probably not the first time during the preseason that a player was out getting 'ripped' - hence the need to impose the 1 am time frame.

I think what it shows is that there's probably been a "cultural" problem at the club in terms of this sort of behaviour in the past. The club is now doing something about fixing the problem. It's disappointing that players are taking so long to change their ways, but it shouldn't be too unexpected, particularly if they've gotten away with it in the past. This reflects badly on the club, and flies in the face of the notion of "professional" footballers. We're making the news, but for all the wrong reasons. I hope that there's more involved in terms of punishment than the five large and the one match, I'm more than happy that the decision is being made by the leadership group, but I also hope the DB and CC are taking these offenders aside and counselling them in no uncertain terms.

I know a few who were surprised that we took Valenti with our last pick, and apparently there was some pretty strong leaning by Mark Williams in this regard, but it seems rather astute to me. He looks the most likely of all our Rookies to make the transition straight into senior ranks... given the lack of preparation by some of our midfield in some ways it's a pity he's not on the senior list now, because his pre-season form would have him in line for a possible debut. He lacks leg speed, and his kicking lacks some penetration, but he knows how to find the footy and he's tough. From the weekend reports the transition back to Sandy has seen him take a further step past where he was last year.

There was a honeymoon? I think Bails knew exactly what he was getting into... to be fair the man inherited the current list (which isn't as bad as many make out, but it does have its problems) and gave everyone on it a new start to press their claims... over the next 6 months he'll see enough to know who to hold onto and who to trade/delist. Some of us (including myself) already have some tickets stamped, but I think Bails will want to see what's what when the real stuff starts.

Keep up the good fight Finks!!! "The MFC Rocks My World And A Premiership's On The Way."

Yet some people are bitter over trading Trav... go figure... The club's moving forward. I don't mind rational informed arguments, but much of what has been written about the preseason is simply chicken little stuff. Danny Corcoran once said that things in footy are never as bad or as good as you think they are.

At least after Rd one we'll be able to make some objective rational assessments based on a game that actually matters rather than have all the 'Marvin the Robot' comments about how bleak the future looks.