stevethemanjordan

There's a propensity for supporters to think that there's more scope for improvement for athlete type-footballers like Frost. Which is something I don't necessarily buy into once they're in an AFL system. I value football-specific skills above all else at AFL level and I firmly believe that players like Frost who come into the system with questionable football-specific skills will only ever be able to improve them marginally. The areas of improvement I've seen with him this year are in the strengths he already has as a player, most of which being physical attributes rather than football-specific ones. His ability to to break lines and his confidence in doing so, his speed, strength etc. His marking and understanding of when to go for a mark has improved and that's about the only footy-specific skill that I've seen genuine improvement in. That being said, he still drops marks that shouldn't be dropped at this level. What I haven't seen an improvement in, is in his ability to completely iron-out patterns of play or acts that are unacceptable and shouldn't be seen at this level. And it's those things that prove to me that he'll never be a complete player nor will he improve those areas of his game enough. The only thing he can do to avoid committing those kinds of game-changing errors is to play strictly within his limits of ability. The evidence is everywhere. The double fumble we saw against Adelaide. His failed attempt at breaking past two opponents when he had two team-mates free 5-10 metres ahead wanting a handball. That decision making process or lack of awareness was unbelievable at that moment. These are only two examples but I don't think people realise, that kind of [censored] rarely happened even in A-grade Amo's when I played. I don't see other players committing the same kinds of acts that he does. As I've said, if we had a really strong key position backman plus Tom McDonald and one of Frost or O-Mac, then things would be different and he would be able to play a much more refined role. That's what I continue to hope for when I look to next year.

Richmond have players of similar nature. So x a billion for them also. Maybe more.

If Frost consistently played within his obvious limitations, he would be good. He doesn't, so his contribution is questionable in my eyes. A catostrophic error resulting in an opposition goal is nearly always around the corner. And in a final, moments like that are amplified x 1 million.

It's a new thing. And I'm a changed man now.

Nah, I like it a lot. He didn't have much of an impact in his one and only Vic Metro game, but some of what I saw at TAC cup level was pretty special. As Pennant says, I reckon he's the type of player that will benefit enormously from an AFL club enviro given his untapped potential. He and Trac in the same forward-line would certainly trigger a trouser-murmur.

I reckon his ball-use isn't as bad as some seem to think. And I am ultra-critical when it comes to ball-use.

I've seen him in the flesh a few times and some of the attributes that he possesses and has displayed in games are in the elite bracket. His speed, ball-handling, leap, contested marking for his size and awareness set him apart and you're just drawn to him. Reminds me of Robbie Gray with some of the things he does. Probably with more explosive power though. He's never really had huge possession numbers given he plays forward a lot and he can definitely drift in and out of games. But keep in mind he was a basketball star and that was his number one sport up until recently so his exposure to these elite teams is limited. I also like that he's not afraid of the contest which is a huge positive for a player with his skill-set. So much untapped potential, I reckon he'll be a steal whoever manages to land him.

I could only rate the players that I've watched live and keep in mind that's not every TAC Cup side. I've seen Eastern, Northern, Sandy, Gippsland a few times so have a better grasp on individuals from these sides. Chargers, Falcons, Rebels and Bushies once. When I saw the falcons, most of their stars were playing state footy that weekend so can't comment on Ling. Two players who didn't happen to play state footy in every game are Trent Mynott from Eastern and Jack Petruccelle from Northern. Those two both impressed me and Petruccelle especially had some incredible moments at tac cup level. Both will probably be second-rounders but I'd love either of them at the club as players who have gone under the radar a bit. Garner and Coffield could certainly be gettable at around our picks. Depends what we're after though and who's available.

Have been going to Tac cup games this year for reasons I won't specify. (May or may not be to do with the club) *cough* Happy to shed some light on any players in question.

Haven't mentioned this but Lever's brother has been playing in the Crows SANFL development team this year I'm pretty sure. I don't really know what that means but it may work against the thought of a move south. It also may not. Dees.

I genuinely have no idea what you're on about. My point was pretty clear cut.

Nice points. It's still possible to obtain class without needing super high draft picks thanks to free agency and trading. IMO, what's most important for us is having quality covered across all lines who can and will come through together. Atm, our key defenders are our weak-link. We don't have consistent quality there. And I mean high-end quality. Lever is high-end. I'd be more than willing to give up a future first-round pick plus a depth player like ANB for Lever. Lever is in the same age bracket as our talented core and is without a doubt going to be one of the best key defenders in the competition in time. Lever T-Mac Viney Hogan Weideman That spine is absurd and granted we keep them, they'll play in those positions for us for years.. I understand T-Mac is slightly older. I consider him super important as a future leader along with Gawn, Jetta and Watts. Add our other young core group to the squad and the team reads: Jetta Lever Hunt T-Mac Viney Salem Watts Hogan Petracca Weideman Foll: Gawn Oliver Brayshaw Once the 9 bolded players hit above the one-hundred game mark, we'll be laughing and we'll see sustained success for a while. Adding class to a team like that won't be hard. Through FA, players will be keen to join us I'm sure. Kelly is commanding way too much coin and whilst he is an amazing talent, I'd rather hit Lever hard for our spine. The rest will come.

With a fit and firing Hogan, Watts, Weideman, Pederson and a resting Gawn as forward at times, why on earth would we play our current best defender as a forward/ruck? It makes little to no sense to me. Oscar and Frost are nothing but potential atm. Hopefully I don't need to bring up the multiple examples of players who have shown potential but ultimately don't cut it.

Why will I be eating humble pie? It's reported we're offering a key defender $800,000 a year who is in a very similar age and experience bracket to both Frost and Oscar McDonald. What does that tell you? If you're suggesting the coaches like the idea of all three playing in the one backline then I'm assuming you see our current best defender in Tom McDonald making permanent move forward from next year onwards? Hell no. Due to unfortunate circumstance, he has been the shuffle-guy because he can play forward and ruck at a better level than the other two. What I see them liking the idea of is the following: Having a really settled and strong defence in Tom McDonald and hopefully Jake Lever as our two main key defenders. Leaving the third tall spot to be an open battle between two developing keys, (Frost and Oscar) who are yet to show anything other than glimpses. (Some weeks three keys will be unnecessary). That is what we need moving forward. Oscar and Frost competing for the same spot so that when they come in, the pressure to perform is as high as possible.

If the reported offer is correct, it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar. Especially given the fact that Lever is the same age as Oscar and has played less games than Frost.

It doesn't bother me whether you think I'm being harsh or not. I'm just saying what I see. I mean, I don't really understand those who say "he is improving at a rate I wouldn't have anticipated." It's almost nonsensical to me. Are you happy to persist with what we have in the hope that they'll develop into good enough players? That's not how list management works. It's really simple. The greater the attribute diversity a player has, the greater that player will be. Lever almost has it all and is a key position height. Oscar and Frost don't have great attribute diversity. They were late picks due to that very reason and it's questionable whether or not they'll be anything other than average-okay AFL defenders. Here is a highlights package of Lever, (same age as Oscar) from last year: He had played under 36 games at this point.

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong. Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games. Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever.

I think supporters fail to understand that not every player on our list will be apart of a premiership or even contribute necessarily. There's a blueprint to an extent to follow in regards to list management and we're clearly at a stage where we need to start to identify missing puzzle pieces to add to our 'core'. Now, obviously some demonlanders will have all of Frost and both McDonald's as part of our core. That is simply a non-objective view of the worth of our key defenders. It's a Melbourne supporters view. Where every player has a place. As far as I'm concerned, none of our three current key defenders possess any significant composure with ball in hand. Frost is an athlete and is still developing basic decision making and kicking execution skills. Whenever he makes a dashing run from defence it's basically a 50/50 whether or not it'll result in a positive bit of play or a turnover. I've said my piece on Oscar and whilst I agree the last one and a half games have been really positive, he is similarly years away from being close to Lever. We have an opportunity to go hard for a player who would help our cause to no end. We're really only a couple of target players away + the natural development of our core to be challenging consistently for a few years. Lever is a big game player already, and a key defender who in my eyes will be the best in the game within three years. Frost or O-Mac won't ever be that. Because they don't possess the attribute diversity that he possesses, regardless of development to date. Which is obviously why he was so highly rated in host draft year even on the back of doing his ACL. Bring him home Dees.

Best complete game he has played without making too many errors and no diabolical errors. Strong in the air, intercept marked well and generally used the ball well. Have got to thank the work and pressure of the midfield also. Makes it easier for defenders to play well, especially key defenders. Hopefully he continues this form next week against a tall West Coast side.

^ Very good

The ball is completely in his court, Adelaide have no say in whether or not he chooses to come back to Vic. Only that they'll have a preference of club to deal with depending on who has the better hand. From the articles that I've read, it'll be family and girlfriend that are the deciders. I don't care why we pay for him. If we land him, it'll be a game changer for our club.

Upon closer look, you might be right. Might be.

Haha. A clearing kick that happened to find a Melbourne jumper? I guess some might say that's clever.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-14/how-a-former-don-is-steering-the-dees-to-finals Of equal importance to Jack's finishing skills was Hibberd's last minute diving spoil against De Goey that not only disallowed what could have easily been a goal to Collingwood, but presented us with the opportunity to go end-to-end and put the game beyond doubt. Which is what eventuated. The picture is amazing. What's not so amazing is how another AFL journo can so easily muddle up De Goey with Treloar. Really amateur given it's their proffession. Anyway, Hibberd has been monumental for us this year. An enormous moment.