stevethemanjordan

We haven't played in final since 07. Everyone needs to [censored] calm their shiet.

Agree wholeheartedly, especially with the bolded part.

If I knew how (and could be bothered) to edit enough of his contests this year, it would clearly show how much of a liability he was in many games. There are four simple outcomes from a contested situation as a defender: 1 - Win it 2 - Halve it to create a reset in play. (Stoppage, throw-in etc). 3 - Have no impact. 4 - Lose it by making an error. (Turn-over, non-spoil attempt, positional error etc). This year, Oscar was clearly thrown in the deep-end and was ‘allowed’ to find his way due to our lack of talent and depth of key position players. That view is evidenced by our trade and draft period this year. His games were almost always full of 3’s with some scattered 4’s throughout the year. It was rare that he ever won a contest. And it wasn’t often that he halved them. It’s a simple thing to do. Watch any replay and judge him using those 4 outcomes as a measure.

Clearly it’s an exaggerated remark. And so is labelling Oscar as “underrated”. Both are untrue.

Neal-Bullen to add "speed" and "damage" across the lines?

Hope everyone keeps that bit of information in-house..

Not really. Maybe I didn’t articulate myself well enough. I read a poster talking about Lever’s ability to read the ball drop quicker than Oscar in that drill. And that is something I witnessed many times this year from Oscar. The moment described was just exemplary of where they’re at as players and just confirms my fears that Oscar doesn’t possess ‘enough’ to succeed long term at AFL level. If he’s not a gorilla or a zone player, what is he?

Is that the Lever vs Oscar shot? I hadn’t seen it, thanks.

Amidst the Oscar talk, I wish to again express my concern without ‘potting’ him. Whilst the Lever Vs O-Mac moment isn’t of any significance at this stage of pre-season, it does give me a bit of a sick feeling in the stomach. Generally, posters are of the opinion that Oscar will be our ‘Gorilla defender’. But I want to ask how that can be the case given the way we defend as a back six? Aside from assigned tasks, our defenders are nearly almost always on the roll, covering different opponents, guarding space, pressing up aggressively and rebounding even more aggressively. My concern is that Oscar’s lack of attribute diversity, athleticism, speed and reaction time is completely non-conducive to a modern day zone defence. This year proved that to be the case time and time again. If you’re a slow and athletically poor defender, you almost certainly have to have a strong intercept/spoiling game or be a smart ball reader who positions themselves really well. And Oscar is neither of those things either. I understand he is ‘improving’ etc. But it doesn’t change the fact that he is not yet strong in any one given area of his game. And unless the Lever addition is going to mean a change to our zone play as a defensive unit, I can’t see how Oscar is going to be of any really benefit to the way we’ve been playing as a back six given how average/poor he is in many aspects of the game. Or in short; if Oscar is being easily beaten in body-on-body drills against a player who many demonlanders thought to be poor in that area, then I’m concerned for Oscar’s future as a best 22 defender.

How hard is it to specify what the [censored] injury is? Seriously?

You are. But that’s cool.

@Mach5 is right. His tank isn’t fantastic. Ran a similar time trial to Rayner last week but the difference is that Rayner has some elite traits to his game. I watched Charlie a few times this year and he was always labouring around the field. It’s hard to tell how he’ll go at AFL level. But imo, similarly to Gysberts, I’m not sure he has the aptitude for hard work. His lack of foot speed and average athletic ability works against him too. He is a smart mid, but it’s really hard to tell how he’ll go at AFL level. As far as inside mids go however, we certainly had no need to draft him or Worpel.

Agree with that comment. Frost has played 50-odd games compared to Joel Smith's 3, yet I feel more comfortable when Smith is in possession of the ball. He seems to be more calm and composed even though his kicking is still rough around the edges and he is still fairly raw himself. But generally, I believe his decision making is better than Frost's. When Frost gains possession it turns into a lucky dip party. He might pull something amazing out of the box which fools supporters into thinking he is a "gun" or he might pull out something that you wish you'd never seen. And it's for this reason that I don't like him playing in the backline. Smith is also only 3cm shorter than Frost with a higher leap so I don't believe height is an issue. It's basically Oscar or Frost but not both as our second key tall imo. Now that the draft is done and there are few murmurings around the place of positional change for some players and a planned start for Weideman, my round 1 side is as follows: B: Jetta O-Mac J. Smith HB: Hibberd Lever Hunt C: Lewis Viney Salem HF: Fritsch Hogan Petracca F: T-Mac Weideman Garlett R: Gawn Oliver Jones Int - Brayshaw ANB Vince Melksham I've made a priority of putting our best ball users on the wings as well as bringing Hibberd up to a flank. Hunt remains the other line-breaker on the opposite flank. Vince had many chances playing that back-flank role but I've taken him out due to the amount of brain fades he seems to have with ball in hand. He can now be part of a rotation. Lewis and Salem over Tyson on the wings. I've seen Salem already in the flesh and he has come back in the best condition of his life and is leading his running group. Both of those guys are far better users than Tyson and also offer more positional versatility. Tyson is now a second-tier inside mid imo. ANB gets a spot for his hard-work, dedication and last years season. But I definitely don't want him as a permanent half-forward because I don't believe he adds enough. Fritsch is a Hannan 2.0 and possesses everything we've been lacking. His foot-skills and pace will be vital to us converting inside 50 entries. It's been reported that Trac is training with the mids, but I've seen him at training and his tank is still not where it needs to be to play midfield full-time. Might play more minutes through their though. T-Mac and Weed will work in this line-up I believe. We've got far better users in the right positions in this side. T-Mac and Weed are very strong overhead as long as the ball is kicked to advantage and this team provides the best chance for that to happen. Hogan to be a major problem playing true CHF. His field kicking for a big guy is underrated. Spargo the other on who could get a spot ahead of Meksham/ANB.

Looks like a very natural footballer, which I love. And clearly, the FD believe our key defensive stocks are weak regardless of what @Satyriconhome believes. I'd go so far as to say that this bloke looks more impressive than Oscar did at the same age. We now have O-Mac, Frost, Keilty and Petty as developing keys with Lever the only definite best 22 key defender.

Why? He wouldn't add any variety to our midfield at all.

Would be a dream if he slipped, I love him.

I posted a bit on him on page 3 of this thread: Haven't seen Baker in the flesh, only a glimpse from his highlights vids but from what I can gather, speed would be about the only thing that they share in common. Petruccelle is very raw.

And so they should. Tom has protected Oscar early in his career as the more experienced and stronger defender. Now he’ll do the same at the other end of the ground. Weed and Tommy Mac deep forward with Tom to take the better defender and the pressure will be off him. Hogan a roaming Riewoldt-like CHF using his brilliant field kicking will cause headaches too. To date, Weideman has only ever played either as a first or second key forward target. (Watts is not a key forward). But next year, he’ll be the third key forward behind Tommy and Hoges and will get the third best defender. He’ll also be in his third season and all of this will allow for him to make a genuine impact. Carn.

The only reason he’ll slide that far will be because of his recent health condition that clubs are now aware of. Based on his talent alone, I can’t see how he’d last to our first pick and if he did, we’d have to take him.

29 - Ryley Stoddart 31 - Jack Petruccelle 36 - Toby Wooler 47 - Aiden Domic

One thing that I think posters need to think about when it comes to Petruccelle is Jayden Hunt. The similarities are all there and Petruccelle’s kicking is no worse than Jayden Hunt's. All he needs is guidance on lowering his eyes like Jayden is learning to do. Having said that, I wouldn’t play him at half-back because I do value kicking skills from that area of the ground. But he’d be a very dangerous small forward imo and would go beautifully alongside Garlett as a small pressure forward who could eventually pinch-hit through the middle. His aerial ability, speed and agility, goal sense and pressure would really add to our forward group. It’s clear an ability to lock the ball inside 50 or at least maintain huge pressure on the opposition when they gain possession in their defensive half gives you a huge advantage. Richmond won a grand final off the back of it this year. Petruccelle is the kind of player who like Hunt, would benefit more than most in an AFL environment given his small body of work to date but huge upside/potential.

Frost lacks in far too many areas to play wing at AFL level. Poor endurance, questionable skills, positioning and general football smarts. For every amazing piece of play he produces, there are at least two diabolical ones to follow. Which is part of why he was dropped toward the end. He is an athlete and not a footballer. Whilst I can’t recall the exact numbers, I do remember that we had a problem with the quality of our entries inside 50 this year. We were nearly always competitive when it came to inside 50’s vs an opposition side, but we far more wasteful in the way we entered. This happened in many games, the first quarter of the Adelaide game in the NT is one that comes to mind and generally it’s always an issue on smaller grounds which requires smart and deliberate entries going forward. I still attribute this problem to the way we’ve rebuilt our list. A contested-heavy and fairly one-paced list of midfielders, none of whom (bar Salem) possess elite kicking skills. I don’t have a problem with the way we’ve recruited. Like anything one builds, you need a strong foundation that will last before adding bells and whistles. But it is another reason why playing Frost on the wing would be a bad idea. He just simply won’t help us improve our entries going forward on top of his other weaknesses. He is a backup key defender imo.

Listening to@ProDee and @jackaub presenting their arguments be like:

Nobody said anything about running yourself into the ground and I don't buy comparisons posters make about jobs in other industries. It holds no relevance to what we're talking about. These guys are elite athletes, what a pointless exercise to compare them to other people who similarly take leave. These players have off-season programs to follow from the club but if they want to do extra then it's left up to them. Bugg is back with all the young guys and clearly wants to make a point. Pedo was there on Monday which says to me the penny has dropped and he understands that if he wants to stay on the list, he's going to have to work harder than others. I'm not talking about proven performers and elite trainers like Jones etc. I'm referring to players who don't have the same body of work to go by and who are questionable 22 players like Dean Kent. Jones mentions Salem as one to watch next year and when I was at training briefly on Wednesday, I was pleasantly surprised to see him comfortably leading his group in the repeat 3 min runs. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-11-09/jones-backs-salem-to-go-to-next-level Salem wasn't required to get a personal trainer or a dietician during his "leave". But he did because he wants to take his football to the next level. You want that from players who are yet to reach their potential and who most obviously need to get fitter like Kent.