stevethemanjordan

I don't have a suggestion right at this point. I'm completely aware that we have no other real options at present and imo it's the FD who are at question. Clearly, and I mean clearly, they were hoping that Oscar would show a lot more than what he's showing this year and perhaps they thought the same about Frost. I was of the opinion last year that we needed a mature key-defender in our side so that Frost/Oscar could develop at VFL level. Even if it was a slightly older head like Brown or McKenzie who are not the future but would at least be able to compete against bigger forwards and provide some depth. I still maintain we'd be better off this year if we took one.. The only reason Oscar is still running around is because the next bloke in line is a rookie named Declan Keilty. But if it were up to me, I'd be willing to see how he goes. You can't do a lot worse than what you saw yesterday.

If you watch the replay, you will see that Oscar's reaction time to some of Brown's leads were abysmal. Like, seriously abysmal. There is no doubting that it's easy to be completely caught out of position as a defender if there is a turnover up the field, but any defender with decent reaction time and some sort of pace would have at the very least been able to effect a spoil on a few of Brown's leads when the defender and forward were at arms reach of each other. Alex Rance would have done more because he's Alex Rance. For everyone out there who constantly whines about individuals being labelled "whipping boys", there's a reason why you twits. Whilst Dazzle likes to go the extreme with name calling and expletives etc, I would rather just say that they're not at the required level. Someone name me one strong attribute that Oscar has to his game. Anyone. I'll give you $10 if you can. Of course we didn't lose the game because of one or two key defenders yesterday, but again, I'd love posters to watch the replay of Oscars game and let me know how you think he is going. We are crying out for Steven May. Or any half-decent key defender that doesn't make more than two or three catastrophic errors a game.

Disagree majorly. Kelly is not soft in the slightest for a player of his profile which makes him even more valuable. He is a gun and would be a top three player in our side immediately. I reckon the footy department would have no qualms whatsoever about throwing $800k a year at him if he was keen on coming to us, that would be an absolute no-brainer. He is exactly what we're missing. However, I highly doubt he wants to leave GWS when they're on the brink of winning a flag, let-alone come to the AFL's most yoyo form side being the MFC.

That's not true. He is hit and miss, like many players on our list. I like many of Zak's qualities, but kicking is not one and if we're bringing in players next year, I want all of them to be able to use the footy. It's the most glaringly obvious weakness that we possess throughout our list.

Hibberd is clear as day evidence that kicking skills, decision making and general attack on the ball are all qualities you either have in spades or you're lacking. ie - the fact he missed most of the pre-season with the main group counts for nothing. He straightens us up to no end. I love the guy.

I'll please myself and bring it up in any thread that is of relevance. I don't mind that you disagree. But it's the basis of your disagreement that makes little sense to me. His pre-season was no more more interrupted than that of Hibberds. So how does your logic stack up? Fitness is one thing. Touch, decision making skills, disposal etc has little to do with having an interrupted pre-season. They have footballs in their hands nearly every day.

I'm sure he has curency, but I can't see us putting him up for trade. I just see him being overtaken really if he continues to perform the way he has been. FA and some trading of future picks would be the way to go now. Our core are still so young so I'm not fussed about draft picks this year, (depending on the depth of the draft). We need to target specific players now. We're ready for that.

Cousins?

I don't think we have that far to go. The way we play now is really exciting and as has been said an infinite amount of times, 'we play the way the game should be played'. If you consider how we played in that first quarter against Richmond, we really should have been up by many goals. Our midfield brigade are incredibly ferocious and attack the ball and man with an intent I haven't seen for years at the club and that's been the case since round 1. Where we fail miserably is in our execution and meaningful disposal both going inside 50 and from out of defence. And those two things can be easily fixed with the right additions to the side. Both of those additions must have composure because that's what we're sorely lacking in our defence and through our midfield. An ability to pick that right target and hit it. Hibberd is proof that some players have it and others don't. He's come in off the back of one Casey game and a limited pre-season and has put our entire side to shame with his ability to remain composed and hit the right targets at the right time in the wet, in front of 85,000 people.. I saw him get furious with a number of our defenders against Richmond. One more quality KP defender with foot-skills and composure and a two-way running midfielder with class and composure and we'll be laughing. This is where I see Tyson being pushed out. We have enough players who can win the ball just as well and as easily as he can now and who also offer a lot more to the team.

Look, I know you love stats. But do you watch the games without looking at them? Why do you give such credit to numbers for one? Tell me the percentage of those numbers that are gathered from short kicks without pressure etc. I'd say they would be half of his possessions. And no, the defensive pressure is not a myth at all. Defensive pressure consists of more than just the 'tackle stat'. He'll play this week because he needs to carry more of the load. We'll have about three to four players playing sore against Essendon if they're not rested. Jones, Viney and Petracca.

Not the first time I've made a comment about him, but for those who refuse to believe he is untouchable, I want to bring a few points to the conversation. As a competent midfielder in the AFL you have to be one of the following two things: 1 - A versatile midfielder who has the right attribute diversity to play anywhere from half-back, midfield to half-forward. Examples: Jones, Lewis, Petracca etc 2 - A midfielder who has one or two really strong attributes and plays a set position/role in a side week in and week out. That player may be considered a pure inside mid, (Priddis, Kennedy, Ward) or an outsider, (Billy Stretch, Josh Kelly, Shuey, Stephen Hill). I understand there are also those that are in between. Shuey for instance is a player who I'd consider outside because of his ability to run and carry, but he can also win contested ball and win it well. Now to my mind, Dom is a pure inside mid. He is a contested ball winner who in the past has displayed really clean hands in close, winning contested ball and an ability to hit the scoreboard. That is his jam. At least it is supposed to be. However, for a player who plays such a defined and limited role, it's of my opinion that they need to play it at a very high level and consistently. This is why: When Dom doesn't display it consistently, he is an absolute liability on the field due to his weaknesses which are his two-way running ability, agility, speed and field kicking. And the fact that he can't offer anything playing forward or back. Defensively on the outside, he can't do much other than guard space as an inside mid. As average as Viney has been this year, I still think he offers more. Especially defensively. And please don't give me a tackle count. Anyone can tackle if playing solely as a contested ball winning mid. I'm talking about perceived pressure, chasing, harassing. Viney does these things very well. Oliver similarly but he is also dominating as a ball winner. Dom is the odd one out and really I think his position going forward should be questioned given the midfield we've assembled. What we now need is a really classy user. We desperately need someone in the mould of Josh Kelly. Unless Dom gets back to his best of 2014 pretty soon, I imagine he'll be back at Casey before long -(injuries aside).

Am I the only one who thinks that this is the most overtalked and overrated piece of play around these parts? The way posters talk about it is as if it was the making of Brayshaw. He read the flight of the ball well and made a decision to intercept mark the ball. It's no surprise he shot past several Geelong players on the way through due to the fact that they were running the opposite way right up until he marked it... And as for the kick, it was just a long kick to a 200cm giant. If you look at the replay closely you'll realise that the kick isn't actually really to the advantage of Spencer. I consider Spencer's mark the most impressive part of the play. Because it was an extremely fortunate mark. It just stuck to his mits. Anyway. Regardless of all of that, I'm confident Brayshaw will be a player in time. And believe like Roos, he is a pure ball winning mid and will be of most value when he's moved there full time.

* I want to preface this by thanking whoever the legend was that changed all demonland txt to 'bold'... Now I can't use my signature highlighting tool. A couple of points to your post. Firstly, the fact we conceded nine points more again doesn't tell the full story. What was the opposition inside 50 count average from 2014 onwards for example? That is a much better stat if you're choosing to continue to use them. It's about how much ball they were both exposed to and I don't need to tell you not every forward entry results in any score. There are useful stats as you've mentioned that coaches use and there are pointless stats used completely out of context by a football supporter. The numbers comparison game that posters are playing to determine 'who is the better player' being the latter. I don't buy it. It's the same as when posters were thinking we'd struck gold when Gysberts got close to the thirty possession mark in his first three games. Some supporters get way too sucked in by numbers and that's what has happened here. And as for the draft number, the following is exactly the type of context that is relevant for the stat (that you think is useless). - Both drafted in the 2014 draft as key position defenders. - Lever missed the entire 2014 year due to an ACL injury but still went inside the top 15 of that year. He was an underage Vic Metro player and the captain of his TAC cup side and had an incredibly strong 2013 year. Oscar started his 2014 year as key forward, was overlooked for the national carnival and played as a key defender for the second half of the year to come into contention as high as the second-round but ended up going in the third round. - Generally, a pick number will give a fairly good indication of the quality of one key defender who goes in the first-round compared to one who goes in the third-round, unless of course there has been a significant injury/special circumstance that has meant one player has had less exposure than another. Lever in this case was the one who spent his entire draft year having not played a single game. Yet he still went at pick 14. Oscar had no injury and only switched to defence in the second half of the year. This is a fairly strong indication of who the better player is. Without having played a game of league football. Single attributes alone, Lever has him covered in almost every aspect of the game and only Melbourne supporters would tell you otherwise.

^ For all of those who look at the above and and conclude that Oscar is at the same level as Lever as a player, do you consider the following: In which teams defensive 50 has the ball spent most time in over Lever and O-Mac's career? I would almost certainly say ours. Which most obviously means Oscar will see more opportunity of gaining kicks, handballs, disposals, tackles etc ect. I never really understand why posters provide stats like that, given they're playing in two different teams that have been at opposite ends of the ladder for the past three years. Anyone that has a decent eye for the game with a balanced view would agree that Lever, (after an ACL comeback pre-draft) is a significantly better and more talented player than Oscar, even if his numbers don't show it yet to the stat obsessers. That's not even considering where they went in their drafts. Again, Lever was touted as a top 10 pick pre-injury. Oscar had no injury problems and went at 50-odd.

If the thread/discussion re: Lever is of no interest to you, why do you feel the need to comment? This is a [censored] supporters forum. What part of that doesn't compute for you?

@McQueen - Because I saw the article floating around and thought I'd share it as a point of discussion. I too think offering up Brayshaw is going a bit far. There's a whole lot of untapped potential there, although I do think many demonanders believe him to be something that he's not; that being a classy and skilled user of the footy. Gussy will be part of a top five most important players in a couple of years, I'm sure of it. His attack on the ball, man and ability to mark above his head are his strengths. He is dual sided, but definitely not in the Mitchell league. It's an area he needs to clean up though, for sure. I'm sure most are aware of the fact that we'll need to keep as much of our core together as possible to have a shot at the flag. Our core being Hogan, Weeds, Viney, Salem, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Hunt, Stretch etc. So if we were going to go after Lever, we'd be offering a fringe player and some future picks including a first rounder. Anyway, too early to speculate but he's definitely a player I'd love at the club. I heard Mahoney saying not long ago that we have saved coin to lure someone at the right time and when I look at our list, I believe we're another quality tall defender short and perhaps a classy and skilled power running mid short.

Prepare for the storm that is about to rain down on you.

If we wanted him that badly and he was keen on coming back to Vic/us, we'd be able to satisfy the Crows. Let's hope his girlfriend decides she wants to come back home because that- as he states- (along with family) will be the deciding factor. I think we're two players short of being a well balanced list. Another quality key defender and a Josh Kelly type of mid. (Someone with silky skills and a tank).

Lever waiting on CBA before signing contract Get. Him. Here. 2018 backline: FB Jetta Lever Hibberd HB Hunt T-Mac Salem/Vince/Lewis/Jones

History and therefore evidence suggests that the vast majority of finals and especially Grand Finals are won from hard/strong inside contested ball kings. Plays and situations where heavy packs of players are trying to win first possession. You've named an outlier in Johannisen winning the Norm-Smith one year. Usually it's influential combative contested ball players or mercurial forwards who take out that award. Hardly speculation. It's not that I don't rate Parish, I'm simply saying I'd rather head into a Grand Final with Clayton Oliver starting in the guts over Parish if I had a choice. No, we're not. And I agree with Parish being a stronger inside player than Toumpas. Only because of his tenacity. But again I'll stress that the heat of a final or grand final is at an entirely different level. I'll also add that a contested possession is another 'stat' that can be misleading. Just like a clanger. I won't post it here, but you should have a look at what counts as a contested possession these days. My argument is that Oliver is bigger, stronger, more aggressive, is as clean/or cleaner with his hands and has a far better chance of marking the ball in a contested situation than the smaller Parish. All of these things point to him being the more influential player in a final, given the way finals are usually played.

All I think and care about with this kind of comparison (Oliver/Parish), is who would be more likely to be the better player under the heat of a final. And for me, Oliver wins without question. Generally finals and especially grand finals are scrappy contested affairs and Parish is exactly the type of player who'd be caught out in that type of environment. He is 180 cm and will never be in the build of Nathan Jones. He'd purely be relying on the heavy lifters to get the ball out to him and whilst he may have that rare ability to kick a classy goal when it's most needed. Oliver would be right in the coalface from the start making it happen.

Clarry is an extractor and his vision and peripheral awareness reminds me of Mitchell's. He nearly always gives a release handball to the player in most space every time. The fact he possesses that sense of calmness and composure at his age is phenomenal. Petracca is similar when he has the ball in close. Clarry can handball all he likes, it's always to the advantage of his teammates.

At least we got Pederson out of the trade. Rather than pick no. 12,000 like we did for Morton.

Disagree. Let's leave it at that.

That was one of several-hundred.