deanox

No worries. Watching this positioning over 3 GWS games helped me see value to us too. We have struggled on the wings, and I think it's because of lack ofstructure and smart positioning, not because of lack of foot speed (which I think is overrated compared to fast ball movement). This is why we tried "old heads" like Lewis and Jones out there. 2 way endurance running is one of the most important attributes in the modern game but it means nothing if you run mindlessly.

I watching the AFL player tracker (live player GPS position during matches) during the finals to see where players from top clubs were moving. It was interesting to watch Tomlinson constantly take the "fat side" wing, dropping just behind the play in the hole. His role seemed to be a defensive winger, whose fast movement to position and aerial ability prevented the opposition from switching play, stopped a loose man getting space out the back. He found his way forward, trying to slip behind defense when GWS attacked: as he was on the far wing, he wasn't making the play but he was forcing opponents to match up on him and defend, so they couldn't be elsewhere. He isn't a high possession winner but his positioning seemed critical to defending and to providing options in attack. I also watched him compete against Grundy. Not fantastic but held his own, better than our pinch hitters do.

I hate it, but it also stops clubs gaming the system. Offering specific contracts to get it over the line for compo etc.

Remember that when we're tested for him it was pre 666 and we were regularly playing a full zone defense with no one on one. The game plan saw all players responsible to zone and intercept and small, faster players like Jetta sprint back and around if the opposition had a spare player drop forward unmarked. Lever's acquisition in this context was a massive win. He was the premier zone defender in the competition and strengthened our game plan. No one could have foreseen the 666 changes. So hindsight is wonderful. He is only 23 though. Will his trade be a win for us? We've still got 8-10 years to figure that out. Assuming he is a mainstay of our defense and plays well in that time then two 1st round picks is reasonable: they are 50% chance at best anyway. It's hard to judge him on 2019. Its clear he needs time to find the pace of the game and find connection with other players within a disorganised defensive unit. His leadership was very apparent immediately. He did some nice things but struggled for touch in others. I think he gets a pass mark as a poster coming back from injury in a team getting belted, but he'll need to step up a touch next year to get the same.

You keep saying this, except he plays on a wing. That's his best position. Here is his possession heat map for 2019. The one showing the hotspots on the wings, a bit in the centre, the defensive flanks and dropping back to full back (but never going near CHB), and occasionally drifting forward on the flanks? That's Tomlinson.

His strengths seem to be elite athletic endurance, understanding of required field position/structure, and his height. This absolutely makes him a modern defensive wingman, who gut runs all day to always be defensive side of the opposition, preventing them getting "out the back" or getting the overlap, and quickly plugging the hole when they switch the play. This is an intelligent role, because you need to know even to hang back or when to push forward. His height is an advantage for the bail out kick. He will also push forward to link or threaten when we have the ball. This isn't a high possession or obvious impact role, but it is structurally critical. ANB has been our most successful in this role. JKH has played it when in the side. I think this is what we've tried to use Jones as when he has played on the wing. It isn't an attacking wing role, using pace and/or great kicking to set up attacks. We definitely lack this role, and it is probably what we use our high half forwards for. Harmes plays this role a lot. Elliot and Langdon both would as well.

I agree that OMac really struggled in 2019. I think up until last year we were building to play a disciplined full field zone style game. It required players to follow rules to a tee, read the play intercept, drop off, and play safe within the system when in defense. OMac could do this. We added Lever because he was the best at this. But 666 changed this and lock down defenders became a necessity. We brought May in as an anchor, but he was injured. Lever is probably second choice but he too was injured. Frost is our best defender when it comes to stopping leads, but he gets himself out of position too much to fit our structure. I am definitely concerned about Oscar going forward, and do think Frosts speed is a desirable attribute. But I can see why the club maumy not want to kick him in on a large contract. His turnovers might not look "high" on paper, but by messing with our structures we either turn it over immediately, or after he gets rid of it. This impact on future position and diaposals shouldn't be forgotten.

Oscar is a zone player, not a one on one defender. With May and Lever firing he'll play his role as third defender just fine. Not great, nor elite but capable. He rarely costs us unless we ask him to play outside of his capabilities/ strengths. Frost constantly ruined our "connection". His spectacular runs cause all others to get caught out of position. He costs us because his strengths don't suit our plan. Frost isn't good enough for us to change our game plan for, so if he won't adapt, he goes.

Yeah I'd have him at ~20-25. I'm thinking 30 and 47, for Frost and 58 might get it done. I'd consider that. He's 28 yeah? Seems a reasonable deal for both parties.

Yeah he has publically stated he wants to come to Melbourne, that's why it's gone quiet. If it gets noisy again, we worry.

Amazing tank. Good long distance speed. Like ANB and JKH in that respect, and given its importance to our game plan, it's an attribute our coaching team rate. Very well liked, great team man. Unsure how that translates to leadership. Can play 3rd KPF or KPD, can punch hit in the ruck, but most successful position has been wing. Would be fine playing with Lever and May as the third defender. Best 12? Possibly. Best 10-15? Definitely. Personally, I think his versatility would make him one of the first picked, even if you have 10-15 players ahead of him on skill. We don't have many players who can successfully switch around the field, giving us cover for match day injuries but also at selection.

Well if they win, they'll take displace us as the most recent team to win a grand final from 6th (in 1900).

He has played mainly down back until 2018 when he moved to the wing to cover injuries to Scully, so it's not out of position.

Frost might look exciting on TV but as a defender he is a coaches nightmare. He makes poor decisions regarding when to leave his main and when to stay, and he overcommits in attack, causing his team mates to be out of position when he finally kicks it and leaving himself out of position when he turns it over. Tomlinson isn't as exciting, isn't as fast, isn't as line breaking or attacking, but he is more likely to play a role around Lever, May, Jetta, Hibberd, Salem etc. He also has the versatility of playing on the wing with discipline (our issue isn't pace on the wing as much as it is players who knows when to go and when to stay), competing in the ruck and drifting forward. Edit: I'm not saying I'd make this swap, but I can understand the potential reasoning, especially considering Goodwin is a tactics, positioning, team rules type coach.

Breaking even in ruck against Grundy in D50, and getting involved in the contest on the ground with a few tackles, sheppards, etc.

Still in the ruck, more against Reid. Erin the tap and gathered the ball. Kicked quickly forward inside 50 and the mark was dropped by his team mate. Good spoil against Grundy inside 50 when Collingwood going for goal.

Back on at GWS first goal, and into defensive wing position. Mummy to the bench and Tomlinson into the ruck, where he won possession and got the clearance (against grundy). Grundy outmarked him at the kick in and again at an inside 50 attempt from GWS (free against Tomlinson for chopping arms, but it was a poor kick to him).

Yeah watching the game with the tracker gps up. Started on the bench, andwas the last of 8 interchange players rotated on but then stayed on the rest of the quarter. Seems to be playing as a defensive winger. Most of the time he was on the far side of the ground, away from the play, but he was in a position to plug the defensive hole in opposition transition. Was largely positioned away from the ball. Followed players to the other wing a couple of times, including when he dropped back to spoil. Played mostly on Mayne (2 touches, one when no Tomlinson was on other wing) and a bit on Reid. Has started the second quarter on the bench.

Ah, so you do agree with Option 2 then?

So 2 decades ago one person blew the whistle? Given how performance based AFL contracts are, manipulating such results for the sake of marketing opens a very large can of worms. Secondly, from your cherry picking attack on Goodwin, it's clear you're either result led by sensationalist media or deliberately missrepresenting the situation to suit your line of arguement. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/grand-final-was-the-real-lesson-for-the-demons-goodwin-20190307-p512hl.html "The Demons coach did not spend long dwelling on the preliminary final blowout..." (not "did not review") "The Demons did not do a regular play-by-play review of the game with their players because it was futile when they had played so far outside the way they know they should play, and outside the way they had been playing." (This doesn't imply the coaches didn't review it, and it didn't imply they still didn't review the overall game with the players, they just didn't hammer ever little mistake at the end of a long season) " “I tried to parcel our finals up into three. We had two really great experiences and one poor one. I certainly didn’t dwell too much on the way we played because it was nothing like the way the Melbourne team plays. But you do reflect on the things in our program we keep addressing and learning from,” he said." (Again, this implies they reviewed and took learnings from the game, they just didn't hammer the players about little [censored] on an overall horrible day) If you want to maintain your position of conspiracy theories you at least need to substantiate it. The onus of proof is on you. Edit: for clarity, you're the one who tried to use your opinion of Goodwin to leverage the conspiracy theory of manipulating bnf results. My post talked about coaches and coaching groups in general, and applies across the board to all clubs. Just because you don't like Goodwin, doesn't mean all coaching groups manipulate bnf results.

We've got two options here: 1) the entire AFL industry is manipulating best and fairest results for the purposes of marketing and supporter management, at the potential detriment of performance bonus payments to players, and not a single person involved in the industry has ever hinted at blowing the whistle. Or 2) Coaches that cast votes are a) more knowledgeable of the player role and KPI than the average player and b) influenced by conscious/unconscious bias RE player performance, which also is the basis for making decisions on list management and players futures; so it isn't a surprise to see correlations or patterns in vote results and player movements. I'm going to go with option 2 on this occasion.

I think if you read back through the quoted posts my point was that the it didn't matter what the coaches did this year (ie what Plan B they had), circumstances conspired against us. Change to 666? 1) Bring in a lock down defender (May): injured. 2) Bring in a running wing (KK): injured. 3) Invent new match tactics/plan: post season surgeries mean no preseason match practice. Key injuries (tall forwards and our best i50 delivery in Melksham) cruel any advantages of 666. 4) Tracking young players new tactics plan: Change in "runner" rule, making it hard for coaches to instruct young side. 5) Implement intensive leadership training with players/ line leaders to upskill on field communication: key players get injured. 6) Poor on field performance? Injuries mean there are limited options for "plan B" (meaning alternative players/positions).

Haha it would have been a great season to sleep through! It's hard enough to work out who could have done the job assuming everyone was available, let alone knowing the injuries we had. To me this exercise should demonstrate why we need to give some leeway to Goodwin for 2019. We're a young, inexperienced side, lacking leaders, who had significant injuries before and during the season, while trying to accomodate major tactical rule changes (666 and runners). I'm not saying "free ride", but I am saying we should recognize just how out off the ordinary these circumstances were, and how the different issues all compounded together, affecting our attempts to navigate the challenges.

The BnF will reflect how well the coaching group think a player has played his role and followed the game plan. Sure brilliance will get votes, but they won't give full votes to players who ignore team plan/rules no matter what the outcome. I expect Frost will poll a bit lower than many supporters will expect. Yes he is exciting, he breaks lines, he attacks, and he had great highlights in a solid year. But his no.1 role is being part of a defensive 6, and I think when it comes to Frost, that often comes second. Leaving his man at the wrong time, spoiling team mates, poor positioning during the i50, means that at times he struggled as a defender. Many of his highlights came after he had messed up. Many highlights end in him messing up (e.g. running too far snuffed confusing the timing of our forwards). I'm not saying I want him gone, but I understand why he may be tradable.

Good point. With Lever out, I would have picked May, Lewis or Jetta as player from the back 50 to do this. TMac or Melksham would have been my pick for a forward 50 leader. In the midfield you'd expect Jones and Viney to do the job, but neither are really leaders and Viney struggled with his own game this year. But given the wings are usually the structural players in the midfield, maybe we should have selected KK, Stretch or Salem to organize the midfield? Who do you think the coaches should have picked for these roles preseason?