deanox

6. Vieny (although he dropped away he was better when he had it than Grimes) 5. Grimes (fought it out all day but wasn't as damaging as Viney) 4. Jones M (Great effort from a first gamer, got lots of it, kicking needs a bit of work - didn't make the distance from 45 m) 3. Clarke (battled hard despite rubbish delivery. Still kicked a couple from limited opportunities. 2. Jones N (played ok but didn't work hard enough defensively 1. McKenzie (everything he touched went to s*** but at least he was in the play and did seem to be genuinely interested in running hard)

clarke running around at 3 quarter time. sub has not been activated *breathes sigh of relief*

No info yet on what rules we broke or have been charged with.

Not a surprise given that one third of or list are new recruits!

Why would there be a verdict? Surely the only thing that can be announced is that the investigation has recommended charging certain parties with various offences.

You do realise that those members tend are often staffed by volunteers, and that it is a big cost and effort for the club to do these things. On line membership costs the club nothing on staff costs and is available all the time, no lines, and the couple of staff we do have are fantastic if you call them up. Your attitude is appalling and selfish. If you are truly a club supporter, support them, and realise that you are one of 35 thousand people whose details and money they need to collect in the space of a few months and that there is probably only 10 hours of membership tent time per year.

Rouge you beat me to it.

There should be a "don't know" option for all questions. Would be interesting to see how many demonland just genuinely aren't sure but fall either way by default.

It appears to new that there will be a clear winner in this trade. If Dawes his great form at Melbourne for a couple of years, kicks goals and provides a great target, we have paid serious unders and will bee clear winners. If he struggles for form and gets dropped we will have paid overs. No real middle ground! Re the financial cost, I couldn't care less. Our current players don't deserve the money and we have to pay a minimum amount per year.

Confirmed. Very excited, will hit the track tonight to ensure I'm in consideration come selection night!

The boys did ok up the ground I reckon! I've been putting in all preseason and I think I may be able to press for a midfield spot this time around!

Can do either. I am in like Flynn! 3 (?) goals on debut, Deanox has now recovered from a career threatening knee injury and is looking forward to his come back game!

Just said on the abc that Neeld spoke to the commentators and was disappointed about what was written in the paper regarding cook and gysberts and that they are both still on the list. Can't remember the exact words, but they write not directly from Neeld anyway.

Hardnut, is it not clear to you that this club has a problem with "senior" players being a) not as good as senior players at other clubs and B) no leadership skills? There is a reason why the group of well respected imported coaching staff (inc neeld and Craig) left him out of the leadership group. There is a reason why he isn't allowed to run around, puff his chest out and bark and point at other players anymore. You refer to neeld lovers as if the club has just fallen from glory days. We have had a serious problem within the club for decades. Young players that leave have flourished, senior players that leave play out their years at box hill. The club is trying to change that. Open your eyes, you aren't seeing anything except your favourite player not getting a game.

Or we offered, they stalled, we saw how poor his form was and how he couldn't recover it and withdrew the offer...

Have only just now taken off my scarf! No change in game plan for me; the only difference was three players all executed. This involved a combination of running and spreading harder at stoppages and providing the short link for the 20m kick along the boundary. Set ups at stoppages etc are not related to game plan; they are related to how we set up at stoppages! The game plan is where we are kicking and running to, how we move the ball.

He was our fifth highest disposals today and generally used the ball well by foot. He does more with it when he gets it in the midfield, rather than the backline; on the back line regularly has no options to kick to. Edit: 23 disposals at 87% Effective Disposal today... Wasn't our worst today, was among our best last week. Why the hate right now? And is this really anything that couldn't have been added in an existing thread?

I'm assuming that Morton has broke one of the non negotiates thus the sub and drop. He wasn't great but others were arguably just a bad. One thing we have dinner is brought in guys who have a crack. MacDonald, Pickles, Dunn (he might not be great but at least he puts in), bail and sellar at least try as well. I imagine a poor week from green out millinery will see them at Casey the week after. Meeks may have felt that it was more beneficial to let moloney try to make it up in the afl that sit out completely.

Compo picks certainly shouldn't come into the equation unless wee claim the loss off Scully (our previous compo pick) as part of our campaign. If we get those picks F, I hope we offer picks 2 and 12 for a star player. Buy a Judd like Carlton did. They tanked but also brought in the elite senior player to help guide the way, the main difference between the two clubs approaches to rebuilding.

I still don't think our list is that bad. The talent that was there hasn't disappeared, what we are seeing is a bunch of under 25s trying to win without any senior leaders on field putting in. Even gold coast and GWS have better on field leaders than us. That is my single biggest disappointment; that players I love don't seem to care and don't seem to run hard both ways. Until now I thought it may have been the coaching, or the game plans or the "buddy buddy" mentality of our last two coaches, and maybe that was the root of the problem originally, but now I think it's just players thinking they are better than they are, and not being willing to put in the hard yards to improve themselves. Edits: fix auto corrects.

It is hard. As Jaded said, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I think we have ben pruning and pruning for 5 years, trying to cut the head off, but unfortauntely, as the old 'leaders' were removed, those that were left leading by default had only ever had the poor role models. McLean didn't lead when he could have stepped up. Green and Bruce were too much like the Yze and Robbo's of old. Sylvia hasn't even demonstrated he actually wants to play footy - he sure doesn't undertand the levels he needs to apply himself to be the best he can (see G. Ablett or even Stevie J). We thought we had some dead wood, but it turns out we were almost rotten to the core. Some people have talked of a 'divide' amongst the playing group, which they claim is evident on the field. I haven't witnessed that, but I have seen players who don't work for each other. Unfortauntely you can't just cull 15 people in one season. At the end of this year anothrt 4-6 will go. Jamar and moloney may move with FA. Green and Davey are close to gone. There is a large part of the problem, there isn't much left underneath that. Joel MacDonald may be safe; he isn't the best player, but I believe he applies himself. After that you have Rivers and Sylvia, and then no one else on our list turns 26 until November (Stef Martin)! And everyone else is under 26 until next May! That's right, we currently have 7 players over 26 on our list, and 9 players over 25 (And Dunn is one of them, he turned 25 last week). We only have 11 players born in '87 or earlier, http://www.melbournefc.com.au/players/tabid/7501/category/senior/season/2012/default.aspx you can sort by DOB.

Additional thoughts from my last post RE what to do, couldn't get this all out last night: Assuming we have 3 first round picks: Select Jack Viney as low as we can, first or second round. Aggressively chase a good young mid, around the 25 age max i.e. Dangerfield. That means offer stupid money (which we have) and then offer the crows 2 first rounds and a player (if we get Viney for a 2nd round) or a 1st, a 2nd and a player. (IMO Jamar has the most currency of all the player on our list, but unsure if we can trade him. We have the cap room, if Jamar wants money I'm sure we can offer to pay the first $400k of his salary at the crows, giving him more money than he'd get elsewhere! I doubt anyone else from our list would be wanted.) If he doesn't agree to a trade, let him walk as a free agent, but push his price up like we did for Scully. He has been AA ruck recently, we will probably get a 2nd rounder for him, and I'd be happy with Viney and 2 early second rounders if we had to trade two first rounders for a star. 3rd round picks and later should be used to get at least 4 mature bodies, known hard trainers, developed leaders. If these players are not AFL standard that is fine, as long as they bust their gut to get the best out of themselves. Aged 25-30, these players are required to to help develop the youth. This will give us Viney, a quality mid, another reasonably top selection in this years draft, and 4 mature hard players. If it only takes a handful of players to cause the rot, we only need a handful of players to turn it around. Add Jones, Magner and Clark to the mix of people who put in and suddenly we have nearly 10 setting the example rather than 3 or 4.

It was actually a calf, and original reports diagnosed or as a grade one strain, 1-2 weeks (from memory). When it took more than 6 weeks to get back on the park from such a minor injury I think he was gone them.

What can we do jaded? This runs so deep through two coaching tenures at least, maybe longer, that it isn't just a trim bit a slashing. We don't have anyone able to fill the void. A team of mangers would go a long way to helping us set the standard. We will never get there until the young talent which embraces the new culture is at the top of the list, so "how long" depends on how deep we have to My only solution is a strong coaching panel (done) and heavy recruitment. That may mean buying players like Mitch Clark, but it also will mean recruiting 25-30 year olds from other clubs and vfl with the knowledge that they are there only to install a culture, not to win a flag.

Miller and Bruce also come to mind. I can't recall junior saying anything, but I feel I recall woewodin saying something back then as well. Maybe more accurate to say "a lot of". Judd didn't say it, I can't remember ball saying it, can anyone provide multiple examples off players from another club saying it?