deanox

No tonatopia, we can't. Until the club is on track, we need the right people involved. Players, coaches, medical staff, everyone, all need to display the right attitude and help build the culture.

It's a valid point but you need to think about the difference drafting makes. It is not swan districts that have turned him around he has turned himself around. Right now Garlett has to work to support himself. Swan district isn't his employer so if he wants to go fir a few beers no one cares. He isn't under any media scrutiny watching his every move. He is a nobody, a failure, so is very motivated to make something of himself. At an AFL club he would be mixing with people with money,with celebrity lifestyle. He would be getting paid good money to play football. Not working for a living. He would have validated by being drafted - it doesn't matter how I behave, I got drafted u deserve to be here. If we had have drafted him he probably would have continued on the path he was headed. No one drafted him, he realised he needed to pull his head in and has done so.

If we are in culture rebuild mode, there is no way we could have taken a point. Only a strong cultured club whip believe they could turn him around bother. With two going captains and a young leadership group and the club moving on other players who don't meet our cultural requirements, why bring in another challenge?

Redleg, I agree. The calf injury he struggled with in his final year with us was probably the reason hee was encouraged to retire. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I only acknowledge it because I think he was out last true leader in that sense. I wish we had the benefit of a couple of juniors on the list now. I think bringing in rodan and Byrnes was done for that reason and I hope we bring a couple more this year. If we only turn over 6 players on list this year I'd be happy for us to bring in 2 kids, 2 middle age players and 2 old veterans. On field and on track teachers and mentors is what we need to add.

Only because it is ranked by differential and we are equally as bad at home. Great pick up though!

KC, I haven't said this for a while but I, along with many others on this forum, appreciate your efforts to keep us updated about the scorps on match days and during the week. Reading your reports are always great as well. Thanks again.

James McDonald was a mistake but I think at the time they had reasons re fitness and injury. The problem is, even with those negatives, we could have used his experience and leadership. I think we could do worse than bringing in senior players from other clubs for one final year in player/assistant coach/mentor capacities. Simon Black is or Paul Chapman would be fantastic for one season, teaching and demonstrating and leading and advising. And landing a genuine leader aged 27 or 28 with 3 years left, who plays in the midfield would be a massive bonus. These would fast track is the most.

SS12, I'll try and answer as best I can.Examples off the shocking culture includes: -Previous "senior" player who played selfish football instead of team football including Yze, Robbo, even to an extent Moloney (great footballer but it was evident in the field he was a solider not a leader) -A culture which was described as bruise free -A culture which apparently encouraged T$ to leave -A culture which hasn't win a flag in 50 years -a culture that thought it was ok to cancel a time trial the coach had ordered You may not agree but I think that many supporters on here and otherwise have watched this develop for 15 years. We were never going to compete with the geelongs or Sydney's of the world. Our players simply were not disciplined. RE fitness I'm surprised that you won't take Dave Missons word, given he is well respected throughout they industry in both football and other sports. But if you need more you could try reading the Cale Morton interview last week where he talked about how west coast was a lot fitter than us. I can also assume the players saying "hardest preseason ever" last year is not enough independent evidence for you, buy if you saw or ability to get completely over run during the Bailey era you would understand we weren't up to it. I'm sure you realise the significant shift in modern footy since the advent of the press, and the increase in fitness levels required to implement it. We are just catching up. I hope some of those examples are understandable, if anyone else has any examples, please add them

Will still be a cast at that point, had an ankle reconstruction this week. A bit of time off work and I'm spending it all on here!

On the upside I will have a moon boot on shortly, which is almost official MFC merchandise these days!

I'll do my best to get down but am recovering from injury right now, may be a bit difficult.

Re Bruce, didn't he leave for half the money but twice as long a contract? And then didn't he not see out the contact at the hawks?

Are you able to elaborate who those four are?

I get where you are coming from now WYL. I don't know enough to know whether you are correct or not, as I'm only looking outside in. Do you have a solution ie available coaching staff?

Agree with a lot of that but malthouse and Ross Lyon were the only two experienced available coaches and we didn't exactly have a chance at either of them unfortunately. At this stage, if we have Paul Roos putting up his hand to take over I think it should be considered, but I haven't heard any other reasonable available options. Neeld may not have been the first preference but he may have been, and may still be, best available for us.

Fair comments, all of them, although I think some of saty's comments today, particularly relating Neeld and Craig's description of how they had to convince the players to maintain their structures after half time explains some of it in terms of onfield experience. It hurts when they look like they aren't running for each other or for us. I am not sure what benefits starting another rebuild mid season will give us when this one hasn't been given a chance to get off the ground. I imagine any new football department would bee in a similar boat to this one, perhaps the fact that some of the foundations of culture change has been laid would assist them.

Culture change and winning games are related, but one follows the other. Until we get the culture right we won't win the games, and where we do win games they won't be the big ones. WYL, I'm struggling to follow your arguments, you seen too accept that a culture change and rebuild is needed, you seen to acknowledge that these things take time, yet you seen most concerned with getting immediate results. I don't think that both aims (culture change and immediate results) can be achieved together, not when our supposed on field leaders leave the club in the lurch instead of helping us get to the top, and definitely not without the culture change taking even longer.

Did you see my suggestion earlier in the thread? I think this would be a good AFL solution instead of pp. No bottom side ever needs an extra 18 year old, they need a player who will help them straight away.FWIW I think we'll trade our first round picks regardless. We have done good young talent. Viney and Toumpas are guns. Trengove should come on. Matt Jones los great. Nate Jones isn't old. Add two key good mids to that and we're on track.

His comments regarding Moloney don't cone as a shock to all but there is still a large proportion of people who claim that Moloney was good in 2011 and in 2013 therefore 2012 is proof that Neeld is a bad coach. This article goes a long way to prove that irrespective of Neelds coaching skills, Moloney is a poor leader and probably someone harbouring poor culture. Everyone wants us to have culture like Sydney, but I reckon Paul Roos would have had the same problems with the playing list. Also rpfc and saty, this is one of the most productive and engaging threads on demonland at the moment, I think you both have a lot to offer, please help me keep it on track! I think saty is sick of being howled down in the fashion of "we need to sack Neeld and if you don't agree you're an idiot", and I can see why that is getting frustrating. Let's work together you discuss the problems find solutions and support the club with all seriously love. This is the time the club needs us to keep personality differences out of it.

If the mandate was culture, and the footy department was looking to implement a better culture throughout the club, it wouldn't make sense to give leadership positions to people who don't represent the culture and values they are trying to implement (ie Moloney). FWIW, I think if Moloney truly cracked the sads and played poorly and left because he wasn't captain, then that is pretty indicative of why he wasn't made captain. I think the job has been made so much harder because so many senior players have been moved on because of culture. I don't think anyone expected we'd need to move this many on.

I doubt that's the case. I mean, we aren't talking about people not putting their hands up here, we are talking anonymous voting nomination for who is the preferred. If they weren't the stand its they wouldn't have had more votes than any unless it was done joke/conspiracy by the players! I've heard it was the players, comments in this thread indicate it was the footy department who selected them. Either way they were chosen.It's also worth noting that Grimes had been awarded the club leadership award a few years in a row previously, by the old footy department, even though he was injured and not paying. He must be doing something right.

I think there is a difference between good footballer and captain though. I think for where our club was at we needed a strong off field leader, a strong speaker etc. Maybe Jones isn't that guy, he seems kinda shy to me. He can be great leader by example and he can still be supportive of the captains without being captain.

Schwab got a 3 month pay out. And re the loan I thought it was above board, a business transaction which was completed, not particularly unusual to people familiar with the business world, although I am not fully across it.

From what I can tell Connolly took a bullet for the club. Yes maybe some others should have gone with him, but it is much better for an individual to fall on their sword than for the whole club to fall apart, which could have happened if we were found guilty.

I really hope we follow through on PJs recommendations, no matter what they are. We really need an outsider to help straighten us out. I feel good about this appointment.