Lil_red_fire_engine

It sounds like all other players could get there. I am assuming he did not have a decent excuse and it sounds like he missed the meeting not just got there slightly late. Was really looking forward to seeing Sammy play but completely agree with the stance.

The dogs were appalling and I dont think it had to do with structure. Intensity and skills even for a preseason game were poor. Their forward line without Hall was completely dysfunctional. Even though they won a game they have clearly been the worst looking side of the first six.

Are you sure you are watching FOX FOOTY and not the BigPond Footy channel?

As much as I tried not to like it I just cant help myself. I am keen to hear what it sounds like with 22 guys punching it out after a win but on its own its pretty darn good.

No offence taken. I am really keen to see how his year pans out as he has all the tools I just dont see yet exactly where he fits. His games as a mobile ruckman showed where he plays best but we have Jamar. His games back to me were more promising than when he played forward purely because he appeared to get lost forward. Just because he is being slated to play forward may be more to do with structures and need and not necessarily because he is seen as better. I find it interesting that both he and T-Mac are being seen as primarily forwards and am keen to see how this plays out.

I enjoyed watching Stef as a mobile ruckman. I think that is where he is best suited where he can just chase the ball and use his leap and agility. I feel that he does not have the natural football smarts to understand when and where to lead as a primary forward. This issue does not affect him when played down back as he can be led to the ball and then use his strength and athletic ability to affect the contest. If he is to be used as a primary forward with a small amount of time in the ruck I would argue that you may get more out of having another player forward and put Clark in there for the 5 minutes of Jamar relief each quarter. It will be interesting to see how he goes this year and whether he will cement a place in the side.

I see the opposite that MFC supporters have never been critical enough of our players. In most eyes they are better than what they are and any criticism is harshly met. There is nothing wrong with criticism as long as it has some substance and does not become abuse. To be clear I dont see calling someone a flat track bully as abuse. If anything I wish we had more players who consistently ripped apart sides that we are better than. I wish Colin Sylvia was a flat track bully like Moloney as well. However I also wish that Moloney would improve the delta between those games and the rest. That is about recognising where he can improve not about criticising what he already does well.

You still dont get it. It is not about how he performs in losses which I agree of course your numbers can be expected to drop. It is about his performances against the top teams compared to the bottom teams. If you want to look at it in averages look at him compared to some other mids and maybe you will finally get it. Moloney 2011 avg vs top 5 (16.8*) avg vs bottom 5 (29.6) variance (-12.8) Judd 2011 avg vs top 5 (23) avg vs bottom 5 (29) variance (-6) Swan avg vs top 5 (31.8) avg vs bottom 5 (31.2) variance (+.6) Ablett avg vs top 5 (32.7) avg vs bottom 5 (29.8) variance (+2.9) * taking out the Geelong game Moloneys avg is 19.2 still 10 possessions less.

Its not about how he performs in losses as we lose plenty. Its about how he performs against the better teams than against the bottom sides. Work out his averages against the bottom 5 sides and the top 5 sides and put them against Jones and Trengove and tell me how they look? He clearly excels against the cellardwellers and goes missing against the more mature better line ups. Moloney is clearly our best midfielder at present. We need him to be our 4th-6th best midfielder if we are to win a flag. He may improve his standing if he works on his defensive game and shortens the gap between his best and worst.

Nathan Jones stats in brackets from the same games Moloney top 5 possession 36 vs Brisbane (27) 35 vs Port (23) 32 vs Gold Coast (25) 31 vs Adelaide (28) 30 vs Richmond (22) Moloney bottom 5 possession games 2011 0 vs Geelong (19) 15 vs Carlton (22) 16 vs North (23) 17 vs Hawthorn (23) 18 vs West Coast (27)

It is not out of context at all. I am disagreeing with your point completely. We are not talking about a minor decrease in numbers which I agree would be normal for a player in a loss. We are talking about a massive gap between his best and worst games. We are also not talking about inconsistencies in the teams where he shone against the better sides. All his top possession games are against the bottom sides. With the exception of the North game his worst games came against the better sides. Its pretty clear logic to me. I dont understand why measured criticism is seen as bagging a player. All I am stating is he needs to seriously improve his performances against better sides. I have just as much issue with people who cannot see a players weaknesses just because he plays for OUR CLUB.

Moloney top 5 possession games 2011 36 vs Brisbane 35 vs Port 32 vs Gold Coast 31 vs Adelaide 30 vs Richmond Moloney bottom 5 possession games 2011 0 vs Geelong (NB: he played the half so no excuses to not touch the ball) 15 vs Carlton 16 vs North 17 vs Hawthorn 18 vs West Coast Stats dont lie. The vast difference between his best against bottom sides and worst against top sides clearly supports him being a flat track bully.

How dare you have a life away from this site Andy. Shame on you. I would remove all except the two skips, Neeld, Stynes and B&F winner Moloney. You should only be there if you are the skip, the coach, win the B&F or make the AA squad. You therefore earn the right to be there rather than get their by popular opinion.

If he is a key defender who is not good body on body nor has the pace to go on the lead then you would want him to be able to offer quality drive. Being a good spoil and reader of the play is not enough. I have nothing against Rivers I admire some of his attributes I just don't rate the complete package.

Fan, agree regarding Ryder and Hill and agree he was improved last year but think you seriously over rate him. He is most often beaten by bigger players, does not have the agility to beat most leading forwards and although improved last year he does not offer the drive we need of half back. Rivers finishing where he did in our B & F is more a statement on how poor our season was than his performance. If we are to improve as we hope to players such as Rivers need to start becoming periphery and not starting 18 players.

Watts will grow into becoming an A grade footballer with maturity. Whether he becomes a true elite of the game will be dependant on how much he wants it and his ability to push himself the way the great forwards like Riewoldt and Brown have. To compare the attack of an inside midfielder like Jordie with Watts is apples and oranges. Freak his attack improved last year and was acceptable for a third year floating forward. He has a long way to go to becoming an elite key forward. Thinking this way does not make it an about face.

Since when is that what elite means. The definition of elite is "The best or most skilled members of a group". How many other defenders in the league would you choose this season over Chip? I personally would have him above all others at present (on the basis that Fletcher and Scarlett are passed their prime) Frawley is an elite defender.

James Frawley not having the tools to be elite? I think he is close already. I would not be surprised to see Gysberts, Howe and Trengove duking this out in 3 years time.

The point that is being made is that the injury Jurrah sustained has not stopped him working on his greatest deficiency which is his aerobic capacity. If any it has made almost his sole focus. He is the most natural one touch player on our list I would say he has one of the best football brains.Most of the training on the track has not been about structures that has been in the class room where he can participate. Granted putting those learnings into action on the track assists but I think he is best placed to be ready to go for the start of the season.

I would not be too concerned about Jurrah not participating in training. If anyone will get their touch quickly it is him. -Granted he cannot participate in the match simulations but his injury has allowed him to run lap upon lap and work on his aerobic capacity which is of most importance.

Jamie really made great strides for me in the last three games of the year when he was allowed to settle as a lock down small defender. It appears that he will continue down that road this year and I think as his confidence grows you will see him improve the attacking side of his game and increase his possession count. Observing training he seems to have improved his body shape over summer and I would have him as smokey for most improved player by end of year.

Forgive me if this is already in the thread somewhere but big Maxy's twitter gave me a great afternoon chuckle gawndog37 For those @gawndog37 fans that are shattered with the news of captaincy! No need to worry i just got appointed skipper of my mums dream team

Great result both the joint captains and the complete shift in the supporting leadership group. Well done to the pair of Jacks and the rest of the leadership group.

I agree. Unless the decision has been made and there is concern about it being leaked. Doing it at the AGM would have been clouded by Jim stepping down.

When Jack Viney is playing for MFC do you think this will work as well? How much Jack Viney discussion proliferates other threads? I would say aside from Jack Viney trained today not much. I am not saying it wont work but I think we are just creating more threads to try and follow and more work.