2 minutes ago, Gibberish said:

You say motivation but I would counter with accountability within the playing group, to the club and to their teammates. Our standards have dropped dramatically. I recall a post game interview from Gawn after one of our finals exits saying that they were cooked after maintaining such a high level of defensive effort for so long that they need the extra time off (or something to that effect). I can understand the burn out and not getting the reward for effort, but when I watch them play it almost looks like some of them are silently protesting.

Houston was put off by the reports coming out of Melbourne, so it's no stretch to think that there were other players reluctant to sign on.

Fair call. Thanks Gibberish. Although it sounds a little sarcastic to say thanks, followed by your moniker.

There is no denying our last six to eight games have been most disappointing but I think other than a brief glimpse of hope mid season the whole year seemed derailed by our first five games .

But yeah often after a coach is removed, clubs inexplicably play better and manufacture a few wins.

Not us.

Our new coach will have a massive challenge on their hands.

6 minutes ago, rufus said:

This is the scary part. History is repeating itself with our 'star' players almost all regressing through their prime years. IMO this was always the root of our problem, not the coaching.

I don't even know how it is possible for our senior guys to go backwards so badly. Normally with experience a player can't help but be a more effective player...the whole idea of experience is that things become easier for you. You've seen all the scenarios and you've developed ways to handle them. How are these guys so bad (Max excluded)? Is it laziness? Hubris? What is wrong at the core of the player culture at this club? Who can fix it?

I think May is in a similar boat. A KPD at his age needs to be playing at a crazy high level to stay in an AFL side, but he's nowhere near it.

11 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Ground the lot of them for the entire next season....covid-style.

There is a distinct lack of care for each other, too many play like they do not give a stuff...for each other.

You may be onto something, this seems like a majorly disconnected group.

Drop Kozzie for the last game, he tends to get reported, I can see it happening again...he gave away stupid frees and 50m penalty today, looked frustrated. Let's not derail another start to season, drop him Chappy!

You can't ground them. They've hard enough hardship. You need to bring in more atmosphere for young men. Parties, chillouts, sharing music and quality movies (not the [censored] that's rolled out in cinemas today, but draw on good culture) go to art gallery together etc. Cultural expeditions are important. Camping! Essential. Team bonding. Something where the cameras are off too. So MFC media doesn't have to infiltrate that space for them. And! They should all bring at least 1 mate with them to extend to friendships and networks and conversations.

If I was in a position to facilitate this stuff then I would do it. They need someone, a cultural informant. An elder maybe. Someone from a different walk of life. Artists, writers, performers... you know... dees fans, like myself or anyone else. They need different input. Not just 'footy brained' people.

NOTE: The levity and humour that is brought to the group by someone like Mark Choco Williams would be invaluable. And footy brained coaches can't get the job done without these characterful informants, elders and guides in life not just football .

Women are integral. And also more diversity of men drawing from different fields of expertise. Sport and footy particularly at its best brings in people of all kinds and that's one of the main reasons that we love it .

1 minute ago, nextskipclaz said:

You can't ground them. They've hard enough hardship. You need to bring in more atmosphere for young men. Parties, chillouts, sharing music and quality movies (not the [censored] that's rolled out in cinemas today, but draw on good culture) go to art gallery together etc. Cultural expeditions are important. Camping! Essential. Team bonding. Something where the cameras are off too. So MFC media doesn't have to infiltrate that space for them. And! They should all bring at least 1 mate with them to extend to friendships and networks and conversations.

If I was in a position to facilitate this stuff then I would do it. They need someone, a cultural informant. An elder maybe. Someone from a different walk of life. Artists, writers, performers... you know... dees fans, like myself or anyone else. They need different input. Not just 'footy brained' people.

NOTE: The levity and humour that is brought to the group by someone like Mark Choco Williams would be invaluable. And footy brained coaches can't get the job done without these characterful informants, elders and guides in life not just football .

Women are integral. And also more diversity of men drawing from different fields of expertise. Sport and footy particularly at its best brings in people of all kinds and that's one of the main reasons that we love it .

More soccer at training perhaps

27 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Incessant. And yes, it is, Sharp being the worst offender, although Fritter with his fumbled marks ran him a close second.

Normally I avoid this thread post-loss but everything said here is right. It is sadly true. A real [censored] show.

Being pedantic like that you should be an umpire

1 minute ago, BigBadBustling said:

More soccer at training perhaps

boy that's such a creative diversional therapy solution! every week too! the absolute epitome of going through the motions and hoping.

No... but.. seriously... it's good. At least it's something. But... gotta reach a bit further into the pantry. The world is full of treasures that these men (Gawn the perfect leader into the broader aspects of life) should be voyaging into and simply playing with, in good humour and curiosity and inspiration

Has anyone seen Kozzi recently? Played two good games after becoming the $12m man, but appears to have lost interest 11.9 years early.

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I’m all in on ANB’s Crows. Make my Saturday better!

I'm also watching Hoges and Bedford at the Giants and Harmes and Baker at Footscray. For some reason I can't bring myself to watch Jacko at Freo, though.

6 minutes ago, nextskipclaz said:

boy that's such a creative diversional therapy solution! every week too! the absolute epitome of going through the motions and hoping.

No... but.. seriously... it's good. At least it's something. But... gotta reach a bit further into the pantry. The world is full of treasures that these men (Gawn the perfect leader into the broader aspects of life) should be voyaging into and simply playing with, in good humour and curiosity and inspiration

Honestly, the sort of stuff you're talking about is why I opted out of the workforce. And I've never looked back. What you're suggesting might be fantastic for some, might be a total disconnect for others. I was made to attend a staff 'team-building' event in a different state, where I was asked to stand and then singled out for praise in front of over a 1000 fellow employees for some of my work (not even my best). Not 1 other person was singled out, only me. Not my thing I'm afraid. Much prefer recognition in my pay packet. At least my crew and I had a massive night on the company dime.

You said we can't 'ground' players, and I agree, that's nuts. But likewise, you can't force a player to bring a mate to some cultural event that neither he or his mate has any connection to. You really can't be forcing a player to go to anything outside an official club function. Everyone is different, and you seriously risk alienating people with ideas like this. Once you lose them it's very hard to get them back, and I'd argue that's a massive risk for a footy club.

9 minutes ago, nextskipclaz said:

You can't ground them. They've hard enough hardship. You need to bring in more atmosphere for young men. Parties, chillouts, sharing music and quality movies (not the [censored] that's rolled out in cinemas today, but draw on good culture) go to art gallery together etc. Cultural expeditions are important. Camping! Essential. Team bonding. Something where the cameras are off too. So MFC media doesn't have to infiltrate that space for them. And! They should all bring at least 1 mate with them to extend to friendships and networks and conversations.

If I was in a position to facilitate this stuff then I would do it. They need someone, a cultural informant. An elder maybe. Someone from a different walk of life. Artists, writers, performers... you know... dees fans, like myself or anyone else. They need different input. Not just 'footy brained' people.

NOTE: The levity and humour that is brought to the group by someone like Mark Choco Williams would be invaluable. And footy brained coaches can't get the job done without these characterful informants, elders and guides in life not just football .

Women are integral. And also more diversity of men drawing from different fields of expertise. Sport and footy particularly at its best brings in people of all kinds and that's one of the main reasons that we love it .

That part of my post was in jest. I am in agreance with you on this, not so much re Chandler.

I believe Covid was a perfect storm....our team bonded and cared for each other, they actually got to know each other, + wives, kids etc(outside of training.)

It seems like we have forwards groups, midfield group and backline groups that have no sense of connection. It feels like we got 3 different groups and the disconnect is huge.

We are a team that does not at all seem unified.

A massive rocket is needed to shake us into action. Honestly I think we need quite a few rockets, complacency has set in for too many Premiership players.

1 hour ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Me, too HD, though I stayed through.

Extraordinary imbalance of numbers, evident from the outset (see my pre-game posts)

But 53,000? Maybethe head count had an inevitable 'Tasmanian' element to it?

We had people in our row, then when the rain came they disappeared. I reckon a lot were in bars, cafes etc

Collingwood won the i50s by 34 and lost

Winning the i50s is becoming irrelevant

2 hours ago, Gibberish said:

I think that's a bit unfair on Chaplin. How much change do expect him to effect on the team in 3 weeks. The forward 50 disconnect has been symptomatic for 4 seasons at least.

Maybe. But you kinda make the point for me I feel. The disconnect is there but yet you try the exact same thing with personnel?? Petty and jvr forward. Turner and may back. Sorry, but youve got a free hit to really take a look at some different things but instead youre doing exactly what Goodwin did. Trying to force square holes in round plugs. At least and see if the puzzle can be solved by moving the pieces around, no? For me, its a red flag he didnt.

Edited August 16Aug 16 by Jjrogan

I left just before halftime. Did I miss anything? 😅

Thank goodness for our W team. So proud of them and it was awesome to sing the song, we’d almost forgotten the lyrics.

5 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Maybe. But you kinda make the point for me I feel. The disconnect is there but yet you try the exact same thing with personnel?? Petty and jvr forward. Turner and may back. Sorry, but youve got a free hit to really take a look at some different things but instead youre doing exactly what Goodwin did. Trying to force square holes in round plugs. At least and see if the puzzle can be solved by moving the pieces around, no? For me, its a red flag he didnt.

What has changed from Stafford to Chappies forward coaching,nothing.had a free hit last week and this week but hasn't really done much at all.i can see all 3 line coaches getting moved on if Buckley is brave enough to take on this rubble

1 minute ago, Jjrogan said:

Maybe. But you kinda make the point for me I feel. The disconnect is there but yet you try the exact same thing with personnel?? Petty and jvr forward. Turner and may back. Sorry, but youve got a free hit to really take a look at some different things but instead youre doing exactly what Goodwin. Trying to force square holes in round plugs. At least and see if the puzzle can be solved by moving the pieces around. For me, its a red flag he didnt.

Fair point. There were more changes last week from memory, switching around the magnets. Throwing Langford forward for example.

Our entries in to the forward 50 has been our biggest shortfall, no leading patterns, not rewarding leads and bombing it in long. It's not something that is going to be changed dramatically in 3 rounds however much we wish it could.

Did Chaplin really say "Today was a blip on the radar"? If he did this is systematic of a delusional mindset that has become an embarrasment!

And on the other matter of Chandler, another gifted games on nothing!

3 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

There are older premiership players that have become imposters who are on contracts much larger than Chandler!

How can our Captain continue to dominate and possibly be & 8 x AA yet the other senior players are so far off it both mentally & skill wise, if they don’t want to be there take a pay cut and request a trade!

They aren't getting to their best for a number of reasons, but that has to do with team balance.

Egos are a difficult thing to tame and rein in, i.e. Petracca (his character is particularly aloof and disconnected at times - yes on par with a Chandler), But the important thing is to know what kinds of people and players Petracca needs around him in order for him to pull his head in and play with humility and intent - this is a social science that I'm suggesting is beyond some of the football-brained people. But a classic coach like Kevin Sheedy or Dennis Pagan might have been abreast of such things.

For example (and it's only an example, though a wild one) - Kevin Sheedy once said that he needed to harness the tension of the group of players and that it was like harnessing their sexual tension, acknowledging the latent homoeroticism of football (after-all we are all sexual beings and this is a signature form of desire), these were some of his observations. What I'm saying is, classic, more worldly people who used to be associated with footy understood people dynamics differently. Understood men differently. More boldly. In fact, homosexuality was probably a far less taboo thing in footy then, only it was private of course.

I think what we have today instead is a rather deafeningly quiet 'niceness' and 'faux chivalry' where no ones deep motives are really harnessed let alone recognised or even challenged. Try developing a contending and formidable football team on such premises.

Back to the point: Petracca would benefit from the humility of an Alex Neal-Bullen up at half-forward becaause the way Alex would look at Trac in the eyes would not for a second allow Christian to get withdrawn or 'over-thinky' or self-conscious or arrogant.

WHEREAS (you guessed it) Kade Chandler encourages all manner of the worst expressions in all of his teammates [perhaps we might argue because he is younger than them - though it can't be the only reason because Bowey is the seminal example that age doesnt mean shiii for the values you have and the philosophy you practice on field]. It is because his philosophy, his intent, his raison d etre is UNPREDICTABLE, UNCERTAIN, and his eyes and gait act in a vapidly demonstrative yet persuasive way toward his teammates (seeking approval - even through remonstrating them, a bizarre and confoundingly annoying paradox of that particularly insecure psyche) - Petracca, next to Chandler has less chance of realising his best football.

More to come on this subtle education - keep the hate (more appropriately, the discomfort) flowing please

TYSM

10 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

I left just before halftime. Did I miss anything? 😅

Thank goodness for our W team. So proud of them and it was awesome to sing the song, we’d almost forgotten the lyrics.

It’s a grand old (women’s) flag GW. Start with that.

8 minutes ago, doomsday dee said:

What has changed from Stafford to Chappies forward coaching,nothing.had a free hit last week and this week but hasn't really done much at all.i can see all 3 line coaches getting moved on if Buckley is brave enough to take on this rubble

Look it was great we gutsed it out in the last half (talk of players not giving effort is nonsense). But at the same time what difference would had it made if we lost by 70 and found out wow, May as a forward actually looks good. Rivers in the middle gives us overlap etc. A totally missed opportunity.

4 minutes ago, nextskipclaz said:

They aren't getting to their best for a number of reasons, but that has to do with team balance.

Egos are a difficult thing to tame and rein in, i.e. Petracca (his character is particularly aloof and disconnected at times - yes on par with a Chandler), But the important thing is to know what kinds of people and players Petracca needs around him in order for him to pull his head in and play with humility and intent - this is a social science that I'm suggesting is beyond some of the football-brained people. But a classic coach like Kevin Sheedy or Dennis Pagan might have been abreast of such things.

For example (and it's only an example, though a wild one) - Kevin Sheedy once said that he needed to harness the tension of the group of players and that it was like harnessing their sexual tension, acknowledging the latent homoeroticism of football (after-all we are all sexual beings and this is a signature form of desire), these were some of his observations. What I'm saying is, classic, more worldly people who used to be associated with footy understood people dynamics differently. Understood men differently. More boldly. In fact, homosexuality was probably a far less taboo thing in footy then, only it was private of course.

I think what we have today instead is a rather deafeningly quiet 'niceness' and 'faux chivalry' where no ones deep motives are really harnessed let alone recognised or even challenged. Try developing a contending and formidable football team on such premises.

Back to the point: Petracca would benefit from the humility of an Alex Neal-Bullen up at half-forward becaause the way Alex would look at Trac in the eyes would not for a second allow Christian to get withdrawn or 'over-thinky' or self-conscious or arrogant.

WHEREAS (you guessed it) Kade Chandler encourages all manner of the worst expressions in all of his teammates [perhaps we might argue because he is younger than them - though it can't be the only reason because Bowey is the seminal example that age doesnt mean shiii for the values you have and the philosophy you practice on field]. It is because his philosophy, his intent, his raison d etre is UNPREDICTABLE, UNCERTAIN, and his eyes and gait act in a vapidly demonstrative yet persuasive way toward his teammates (seeking approval - even through remonstrating them, a bizarre and confoundingly annoying paradox of that particularly insecure psyche) - Petracca, next to Chandler has less chance of realising his best football.

More to come on this subtle education - keep the hate (more appropriately, the discomfort) flowing please

TYSM

Out of the available coach candidates, which one is best at harnessing the sexual tension?

Just now, Redlegs said:

Out of the available coach candidates, which one is best at harnessing the sexual tension?

Maybe the club should be looking for a pre pubescent teenager to coach.

Edited August 16Aug 16 by Nietaphart

2 minutes ago, Redlegs said:

Out of the available coach candidates, which one is best at harnessing the sexual tension?

Well if you're asking about homo sexual tension I'd say clearly none of them - because likely they've had very sheltered footy boy lives. But I could be wrong - I'll stop my speculation at people's sexuality, I think that's reasonable!

But Paul Guerra looks like he has the stud in him, looks like he might get what it's all about fellas. No frills. [censored] out and show us what you're actually all about please. let's hope he can call bs on niceness and get back to grass roots expressions and values.

The gap between our best and our worst is bigger than the Grand Canyon.

Maybe this was always going to be a down week after the emotion of the last fortnight but we still play incredibly poor football when we're off.

Let's hope we can fire ourselves up one more time to try to get some positivity into the group before what will be the most important off- and pre-season we've had in a long time.

1 hour ago, deegirl said:

Being pedantic like that you should be an umpire

You mean I would actually penalise the throws? Damn right!