14 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

7 current coaches have won a flag and I think 17 separate coaches since the year 2000. Not sure it is a rare as you think.

17 coaches have won a flag in a quarter of a century. Okay. How many coaches in that time? The strike rate isn't high.

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

I think most of us know that changing Coaches is not a guarantee for success.

But when you look at last night, with the Saints struggling to beat the Bombers VFL side and think back to us losing to them with a 45 point lead at 3/4 time, not kicking a goal in the last quarter, an AFL record loss, combined with the last two seasons, it was an obvious and necessary decision.

Also the off field situation where we were losing members had to be considered.

Will we do better next year, hopefully?

Why would you bring up Essendon and St Kilda?! For a period longer than most marriages, people's full academic experiences and pets' lives Sheedy was Essendon coach. Essendon had stability and it helped them have success. Eighteen years on they've had SIX permanent coaches and even though two had won premierships elsewhere they've barely even limped into finals series. Maybe Scott (also with some success elsewhere) will still turn things around but I didn't expect them to do much this year even without injuries.

Then there's St Kilda. Sure, the three coaches between Lyon's stints averaging four years each is better but hardly stable stable. Again another team got a previously successful and again here's evidence it's not a panacea.

Clubs rush to sack coaches too fast and plenty find out that even a proven coach was NOT the magic bullet. And of course then they have the potential dilemma of having yet another - a third - coach in four or five years or soldier on with one that hasn't worked out.

I sure hope our board isn't there three or four years from now - especially given we had an extremely successful coach.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by Go Ds

50 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I'm very motivated to win a flag, doesn't mean I'll win one.

I'll hold fire on Buckley if he's appointed, but it's not like we're getting a better version of Goody. We're just getting a different voice.

And maybe that will work.

But just because Buckley has never won a flag before, he's not owed one. Footy is abloody tough industry and it's why I supported Goody for so long. Most coaches don't get to the top, so he's in rare company. Buckley, not so much.

True but u don’t have the pedigree that Buckley does either.

Time will tell if he can win it if he ends up being our coach.

Edited 22 hours ago22 hr by DemonOX

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

On balance I think so too but I still have doubts. He has 'failed' on both counts before.

Hopefully it’s third times a charm jnr if he ends up our coach.

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

If that is correct one wonders where his allegiance lies.

Not sure what Jobe brings to the panel or whether he has any experience in selection panels, candidate assessment etc

Plenty of other more successful ex players to choose from. Jordan Lewis for one. He has had a couple of similar gigs and knows first hand what makes a successful coach.

Jordan Lewis is very good friends with Buckley, and Max. Total conflict of interest.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson. He isn’t the best public speaker but he is a champion player who went thru a lot of turmoil and was captain of his club. He would know more than most about toxic cultures and regrouping after bad times.

He has also been out of the game long enough to have no association with any possible candidates on a personal level and has no affiliation to any of our players like Lewis for example.

You need neutral unbiased voices in this process if you want it to run properly.

Peter Jackson was Essendon’s CEO before he was ours and that never got brought up. So why is it an issue that Guerra was an Essendon fan?

30 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Why would you bring up Essendon and St Kilda?! For a period longer than most marriages, people's full academic experiences and pets' lives Sheedy was Essendon coach. Essendon had stability and it helped them have success. Eighteen years on they've had SIX permanent coaches and even though two had won premierships elsewhere they've barely even limped into finals series. Maybe Scott (also with some success elsewhere) will still turn things around but I didn't expect them to do much this year even without injuries.

Then there's St Kilda. Sure, the three coaches between Lyon's stints averaging four years each is better but hardly stable stable. Again another team got a previously successful and again here's evidence it's not a panacea.

Clubs rush to sack coaches too fast and plenty find out that even a proven coach was NOT the magic bullet. And of course then they have the potential dilemma of having yet another - a third - coach in four or five years or soldier on with one that hasn't worked out.

I sure hope our board isn't there three or four years from now - especially given we had an extremely successful coach.

Are you suggesting Essendon should not have sacked Sheedy and that they would have been more successful if he had stayed on?

St Kilda didn't sack Lyon, he left for more money at Freo. So I'm not sure that's comparable.

I don't think anyone is saying that sacking the coach is a magic bullet. I think the consensus being that a change was required. Stability is probably one of many things the board would have considered along with performances, membership and sponsorship impact etc etc.

And success is subjective. I would consider winning finals 2 out of 9 seasons not a success. But each to their own.

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I think many confuse support for the MFC with support for individuals.

Individuals come and go. But he club remains regardless and its that we ultimately support.

I think you're misguided about the post premiership celebrations.

• The first premiership in 57 years

• Away from melbourne where we were in lockdown missing out on the live game, the gf parade, the post GF party etc

• A great opportunity to share the cup with tens of thousands of supporters across the State that have worn pain almost like no other club - the stories of Alan Richardson driving past houses with Melbourne flags and randomly stopping to go and say hi with the Cup were fantastic

• A great opportunity to cement the next generation of Dee supporters - remembering we have one of the lowest Auskick representations and support amongst young people generally

Totally understandable. And if anything the players were too focused on driving standards/performance in 2022. To the extent they were burnt out by round 11

No problems with celebrating but when should they be put away and focus be solely on the new season?

Also, as you say, individuals come and go. With that in mind, does a premiership mean significantly more to a player because it has broken a 57 year drought?

If it did it, wouldn’t it therefore suggest the players love playing for the jumper?

It’s not the feeling I’ve had from this group since 2021.

Edited 21 hours ago21 hr by Abyssal
Grammar

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

If that is correct one wonders where his allegiance lies.

Not sure what Jobe brings to the panel or whether he has any experience in selection panels, candidate assessment etc

Plenty of other more successful ex players to choose from. Jordan Lewis for one. He has had a couple of similar gigs and knows first hand what makes a successful coach.

i presume, if caro's report is true, that guerra pushed for jab as he knows him and trusts his judgement

as previously stated, lewis recused himself from it as he's best mates with buckley

27 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Jordan Lewis is very good friends with Buckley, and Max. Total conflict of interest.

I really don’t get the hate for Watson. He isn’t the best public speaker but he is a champion player who went thru a lot of turmoil and was captain of his club. He would know more than most about toxic cultures and regrouping after bad times.

He has also been out of the game long enough to have no association with any possible candidates on a personal level and has no affiliation to any of our players like Lewis for example.

You need neutral unbiased voices in this process if you want it to run properly.

Peter Jackson was Essendon’s CEO before he was ours and that never got brought up. So why is it an issue that Guerra was an Essendon fan?

Not so much Hate. I think it's curiosity/bewilderment. Seems a very odd/random choice. Though apparently not so random.

He's particularly credentialled or expert in ??

🤔🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Just now, beelzebub said:

Not so much Hate. I think it's curiosity/bewilderment. Seems a very odd/random choice. Though apparently not so random.

He's particularly credentialled or expert in ??

🤔🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Which ex player is more credentialed?

Watson is not the sole decision maker here, he’s part of a large panel of both external and internal stakeholders.

The carry on about him being involved is ridiculous. You’d think we got some VFL player on the panel, and not a club captain, Brownlow medallist and someone with a long family history of being involved in the game

He's not a brownlow medallist.

6 minutes ago, biggestred said:

He's not a brownlow medallist.

or norm smith medallist

Is no one else concerned by Green seemingly changing his mind about the timing of Smith taking over as President?

It just seems so Melbourne that we had a plan and then appear to change it at the last minute

35 minutes ago, biggestred said:

He's not a brownlow medallist.

Technically he is. He was stripped of his medal but he did win it.

40 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Which ex player is more credentialed?

Watson is not the sole decision maker here, he’s part of a large panel of both external and internal stakeholders.

The carry on about him being involved is ridiculous. You’d think we got some VFL player on the panel, and not a club captain, Brownlow medallist and someone with a long family history of being involved in the game

No its not.

Why is he there ? Can you answer ?

Or just getting niggled.

It's a rare and important process picking a coach.

Im curious as to his purpose. You may not be.

Just now, beelzebub said:

No its not.

Why is he there ? Can you answer ?

Or just getting niggled.

It's a rare and important process picking a coach.

Im curious as to his purpose. You may not be.

He is there to provide a player’s perspective in the selection process, which is important given a senior coach is there to work with the players first and foremost.

I’m curious if you’d care if we picked Hodge or Reiwoldt instead, or if the hate for Watson is because he’s ex supplement saga Bomber?

28 minutes ago, deegirl said:

Is no one else concerned by Green seemingly changing his mind about the timing of Smith taking over as President?

It just seems so Melbourne that we had a plan and then appear to change it at the last minute

caro is saying he's changed his mind - i do not recall at any point when green said he would effect the handover

i always presumed it would be at the agm - these days the seasons run until late november with the aflw

in december, at the agm, is when smith will have been on the board - from europe, no less - for 12 months, which seems like a good a time as any for him to take over the presidential position

Just now, Jaded No More said:

He is there to provide a player’s perspective in the selection process, which is important given a senior coach is there to work with the players first and foremost.

I’m curious if you’d care if we picked Hodge or Reiwoldt instead, or if the hate for Watson is because he’s ex supplement saga Bomber?

Why are you supposing hate. Seriously. I've not suggest it at all.

You mention two things of importance.

Players perspective.

Supplement s

He's never really ever taken responsibility nor conceded wrong doing. That to me is counter to players safety.

So do I really want him any where near our club ? No.

Is that hate ? No. It's concern.

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

I really don’t get the hate for Watson. He isn’t the best public speaker but he is a champion player who went thru a lot of turmoil and was captain of his club. He would know more than most about toxic cultures and regrouping after bad times.

Relax Jaded.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question which doesn't deserve the accusation of 'hate'.

I don't hate anyone especially someone I don't know.

Edited 19 hours ago19 hr by Lucifers Hero

This whole thing has resonances of the pre-PJ club. The difference is chalk and cheese.

I just hope we don't descend into that sort of quagmire.

Yep, MFCSS in full flight - but nurtured by years of experience!

1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Relax Jaded.

I asked a perfectly reasonable question which doesn't deserve the accusation of 'hate'.

I don't hate anyone especially someone I don't know.

I am just sick of supporters finding any reason to pile on the club.

We select a panel of which half is independent and people complain. If we kept it in house, people would complain.

No matter what the club does someone finds a reason to have a go.

I explained why Lewis was not considered and why I think the accusation that Guerra is still bound to Essendon because of the Watson selection is ludicrous.

I just don’t understand how supporters find the energy to spend so much time questioning every thing the club does, and buy all the rubbish that every media outlet reports.

Caro has a very clear agenda and it’s not pro MFC.

2 hours ago, Gibberish said:

Are you suggesting Essendon should not have sacked Sheedy and that they would have been more successful if he had stayed on?

St Kilda didn't sack Lyon, he left for more money at Freo. So I'm not sure that's comparable.

I don't think anyone is saying that sacking the coach is a magic bullet. I think the consensus being that a change was required. Stability is probably one of many things the board would have considered along with performances, membership and sponsorship impact etc etc.

And success is subjective. I would consider winning finals 2 out of 9 seasons not a success. But each to their own.

I'm not sure how the first 2 paragraphs apply to me. I'm only saying that for a struggling team a coach sacking won't necessarily improve things.

As for Goodwin I'm sure you know he took a struggling side to a drought-breaking premiership. To claim that's not success is well...... gibberish.

22 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I just don’t understand how supporters find the energy to spend so much time questioning every thing the club does, and buy all the rubbish that every media outlet reports.

I'm offended at being accused of 'hate'.

I think you know I'm not one of those supporters who questions everything the club does so its probably best you don't use my posts to express your angst.

I also think you know I don't buy into media rubbish - Caro or anyone else !

Give me some credit.

Just now, Lucifers Hero said:

I'm offended at being accused of 'hate'.

I think you know I'm not one of those supporters who questions everything the club does so its probably best you don't use my posts to express your angst.

I also think you know I don't buy into media rubbish - Caro or anyone else !

Give me some credit.

I don’t think I was picking on you. I just wanted to answer the question re Lewis because I think it’s important that we don’t bring on someone with a vested interest to get his mate a job.

He said himself he is super close with Bucks and it won’t be fair for him to be involved. Plus he’s too close with Gawn. We don’t want current players influencing the decision.

Sorry if my post came across as angry it wasn’t meant to be and I know you’re not one to jump on the anti club bandwagon at any opportunity.

But the same old posters who for two years banged on about sacking Goody are now complaining about who is looking at this replacement. It’s exhausting.

Watson has copped quite a bit of hate in this thread, and I found the suggestion from you that his selection might point to Guerra’s bias to Essendon pretty unfair.

Again I didn’t think my replies came across as aggressive but I apologies if they did as it wasn’t my intention at all.

There appears to be a significant disconnect between the coaching group and the board. Ethan’s assessment on the situation is as follows:

• Goodwin was implementing a long-term strategy aimed at positioning the team for a future premiership. This approach required a period of regression before becoming consistently competitive again.

• Several senior players expressed dissatisfaction with this direction, as they preferred to remain competitive in the short term and focus on playing finals.

• Goodwin’s vision and strategy were not well understood or supported by the board.

• The board’s decision-making has reflected a lack of alignment and professionalism. Their decision to part ways with Goodwin with only four matches remaining, and without a clear succession plan, highlights this issue.

• Further, the proposal to appoint Buckley—whose win/loss record is marginally weaker than Goodwin’s and who has not delivered a premiership—raises questions about the board’s rationale and long-term planning.

While I would be pleased to be proven wrong, my concern is that the organisation may face ongoing instability over the next five or more years.