On 22/08/2025 at 11:29, jnrmac said:

You could write a book on confidence, repercussions of decisions and mental frailty on foot ball teams.

Some teams have been given licence to play with abandon. Doesn't always work but it seems opposite to what melbourne does.

I'm talking about the instinctive give or hit up kick to a leading player. When that is coached out of you everything becomes second guessing and stagnant

Watch how Brisbane chip kick their way out of defence - they don't think they just pull the trigger. Now watch melbourne. They kick backwards, half switch and then stop. Nothing instinctive at all about that and oppo's have plenty of time to shift their defence across the ground or send players back.

Before people say 'we don't have the skills' I don't believe that for a second. 15m short passes to space for a leading player to run onto are easy compared to a 40m pass to a contest. I. believe its mostly in the head and with players conflicted between instinct and coaching instructions.

Its why IMO a change of voice is critical to getting our game plan shifted.

Agree.

Also, I note the lack of instinct when we have the ball, say from a mark, no one is standing the mark and there is 20-30 metres of open space. We just stand there instead of gaining the 20-30 metres for a start and then knowing where to kick to keep possession and gain more ground.

It smacks of a group of players that don’t instinctively know what they are doing.

18 hours ago, old dee said:

I remember a few years ago probably the same people wanted Tmac and Milkshake gone. Yes both are very close to the end but they have held the backline and forwarding together this year. Viney is going nowhere.

You're probably right but that does possibly say more about our dilemma than encouraging our prospects.

He's unfortunately very one dimensional in a 3D game 🥴

39 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Agree.

Also, I note the lack of instinct when we have the ball, say from a mark, no one is standing the mark and there is 20-30 metres of open space. We just stand there instead of gaining the 20-30 metres for a start and then knowing where to kick to keep possession and gain more ground.

It smacks of a group of players that don’t instinctively know what they are doing.

Boggles the mind how many times we let teams catch up to us by doing nothing.

Take it on ff s .. make their defence sweat.. put THEM under pressure... we have the ball... USE it !!

Bloody hell we stand around like dorks at a dance !!

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Viney overated Rugby player

Tracc, since injured shadow of former self

Clarry... 2 times Coaches award and 4 times B&F .....

Now..... u were saying????

Picket, love your passion but those accolades were back in 2022. A long time ago in football hence Oliver is also a shadow of his former self.

I think Oliver and Trac both need to go.

We'd only get partial salary cap relief and/or an ordinary pick for Clarrie and therefore we'd only be able to convert that into an ordinary player. I'd keep Clarrie unless he's disruptive to culture.

I'll go on records saying I'd keep Clarry and trade Tracc.

Reason being, I've seen glimpses from Clarry the last few weeks, and my gut feel is that Tracc's heart isn't in it.

This is from teh cheap seats, i have no knowledge, that's just my gut feel.

In saying that depending who comes in to coach, they may look at Tracc and get him to buy in or whatever, it will be interesting.

But teh criticism of both has been warranted the past 18 months (from a pure football output perspective).

Edited August 24, 2025Aug 24 by Golden fist

On 19/08/2025 at 10:22, Jaded No More said:

The issue IMO is not the location or the quality of the facilities, it's that we are not in one single location.

If we trained exclusively at Casey, then players who wanted to drive less could do what Gawn, May and Lever have done and move to the very affluent Mornington Peninsula. Not exactly a terrible place to live.

But it's the fact that we are all over the shop, that unfortunately means that no matter where you choose to reside, you are stuck travelling to either training base, which are on opposite sides of the city.

Nobody will convince me that the locations of some of the other club's training bases is better than Casey. But when you have a singular work place you can adjust your life accordingly. When you are spending half your week in Richmond and the other half in Cranbourne, that is quite difficult.

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

10 minutes ago, Golden fist said:

I'll go on records saying I'd keep Clarry and trade Tracc.

Reason being, I've seen glimpses from Clarry the last few weeks, and my gut feel is that Tracc's heart isn't in it.

This is from teh cheap seats, i have no knowledge, that's just my gut feel.

I think this is what will happen. I’ll join you on the record.

In 2022, shortly after the GF was the time that the MSM rabble started on us to clear our two best players, because they said, and we knew they had proven that they were by far better than any other combination going around.

The media uttered things like how did we get the two best players in the draft, and it was the start of a dynasty that no one wanted for a team of normal cellar dwellers that should never be allowed to return.

Well the Media maggots didn't stop and intruded for four straight years, day in and day out, into the privacy of our Club like no other.

With a new Coach and Administration for this coming year why not see what happens.

11 hours ago, old55 said:

One problem is that Petracca is no longer a marking threat forward for totally understandable reasons so his value playing forward is diminished, particularly since his kicking has also gone off.

Has he ever been a marking forward?

From memory most of his marks are fwd of centre where he finds space and plays a 'linking role'? He has never been the type of player that flies for a mark or over a pack. His overall marking is slightly down this year but there could be various reasons for that including a different role i50.

fwiw at the time of his injury Lachie Neale said he doesn't go in for pack marks - best to leave those for the big fellas! Maybe Christian has taken Neale's advice.

59 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

What 20 year old wants to live in Essendon? Moorabbin? Dingley?

There are a small handful of clubs who train in close proximity to the CBD.

By the way there are just as many players with families and kids as there are single players.

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

Agree.

Also, I note the lack of instinct when we have the ball, say from a mark, no one is standing the mark and there is 20-30 metres of open space. We just stand there instead of gaining the 20-30 metres for a start and then knowing where to kick to keep possession and gain more ground.

It smacks of a group of players that don’t instinctively know what they are doing.

I was discussing with my family last night saying Goodwin has coached the instinct out of the team. Way too robotic in his demeanour and hence the way they play. Way too focused on metrics and structures etc which definitely have a place but can't be at the expense of instinct and feel for the game. We stream through the middle and go one handball too many, get to the 50 stop and look sideways. We keep trying to look for someone in the perfect position and don't take our chances at goal. We bomb long to the goalsqaure on top of the forwards heads I stead of 25-30 out where they can run onto it or the crumbers can be dangerous instead of the ball being walked through for a behind by defenders etc etc

1 hour ago, old55 said:

We'd only get partial salary cap relief and/or an ordinary pick for Clarrie and therefore we'd only be able to convert that into an ordinary player. I'd keep Clarrie unless he's disruptive to culture.

I'd take any pick we can get if we could clear his salary from our books. We wouldn't get a great player with that pick (although we have struck gold with late picks in the past so who knows) but the salary may allow us to hunt another player next offseason ala TDK to Saints.

5 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

What 20 year old wants to live in Essendon? Moorabbin? Dingley?

There are a small handful of clubs who train in close proximity to the CBD.

By the way there are just as many players with families and kids as there are single players.

They don't live in Essendon, they live in Ascot Vale, Moonee Ponds, Carlton, Brunswick. They don't live in Moorabbin they live in Toorak, Prahran Richmond, Bentleigh, South Yarra.

When we are compared to other clubs Casey doesn't match up and is a clear disadvantage.

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

Doc is that the preferred priority ?

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'd take any pick we can get if we could clear his salary from our books. We wouldn't get a great player with that pick (although we have struck gold with late picks in the past so who knows) but the salary may allow us to hunt another player next offseason ala TDK to Saints.

Yeah no-one is going to take on his full salary. He might agree to a big cut to move and we might get full relief that way. Better to keep the devil we know IMO.

2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Has he ever been a marking forward?

From memory most of his marks are fwd of centre where he finds space and plays a 'linking role'? He has never been the type of player that flies for a mark or over a pack. His overall marking is slightly down this year but there could be various reasons for that including a different role i50.

fwiw at the time of his injury Lachie Neale said he doesn't go in for pack marks - best to leave those for the big fellas! Maybe Christian has taken Neale's advice.

Petracca hasn’t played mainly forward until late this season. To be successful he'd need to present a marking threat like Rayner and he's not able to do that currently.

I'd seriously consider a trade to Hawthorn if we could get Carlton's first rounder and a player.

Edited August 24, 2025Aug 24 by old55

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

Vs Geelong

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

KP has just bought on the MP

Oliver & Petracca have both showed some signs of improvement as season has progressed!

Options trade:

- Petracca maybe get a first round pick in a weak draft.

• Oliver have to wear some his salary and take a late 1st rounder or 2nd round pick.

Don’t trade and hope new coach can get the best out of both players. Trac should be physically and hopefully mentally better next season after horrific injury of last season! Oliver getting fitter and seemingly more confident as season progressed!

Personally I’d keep for one more season!

2 hours ago, old55 said:

Petracca hasn’t played mainly forward until late this season. To be successful he'd need to present a marking threat like Rayner and he's not able to do that currently.

I'd seriously consider a trade to Hawthorn if we could get Carlton's first rounder and a player.

Does that mean the earlier comment that 'one problem is that Petracca is no longer a marking threat forward' is based on some games late in the season?

Raynors average marks is fractionally lower than Petracca's this year and a fair amount lower across their careers.

Reckon trading Petracca and/or Clarrie is just too difficult with too many variables that may not suit (much discussed)

Leaning more towards the new coach hopefully getting both players close to their best or back to their best

Both showed some signs towards the end of the season and a new broom sweeps clean

Weighing it all up, they are both possibly more valuable staying as opposed to what we could get back in trade value (which may not be appealing)

But the red herring is if either or both request a trade. If that were to happen, we might have to then try and then get a fair trade done

If both are committed, it could be all systems go (with a new coach and a new game plan)

I am swimming against the tide on our two troubled stars.

Oliver: KEEP.

We would probably not get equal value in return for him, for reasons we all know about. And in the closing stages of the season he really lifted his game and showed he still has plenty in the tank.

Petracca: KEEP.

With one proviso. He really has to spend the entire pre-season working full-time on his erratic kicking skills. There's still a matchwinner lurking in there if he can get it right.

On 24/08/2025 at 04:13, picket fence said:

I'd definately trade Tracc and try to get rid of Viney, but would keep Clarry at all costs , but as my Geelong source is speculating, he might be good as gone!!

Get rid of that flop Jefferson, waste of space.

21 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The location definitely is an issue. What 20-something wants to live on the Mornington Peninsula? They want to be around the nightlife.

When we are trying to lure prospective recruits how do you think the Mornington Peninsula measures vs Richmond, Carlton or other inner city suburbs?

How could you go past the 21st Century Dance Club?