POSTGAME: Rd 21 vs Western Bulldogs

[Dante 2,739]

We were terrible tonight and I’d prefer we didn’t win another game this year and set ourselves up for the draft. At times the players looked like they were disinterested and couldn’t get out of their own way.
The dogs are a good side and will give it a shake this year. 

[Bang Bang Bang 5,839]

Oh damn I stopped reading BigFooty years ago because of that shock jock and his sycophants. Now he’s joined the building here, FFS. 
 

[layzie 33,991]

11 minutes ago, Tom Dyson said:

The midfield really is the biggest concern. When you give up that much territory off centre bounce it makes sense that the oppo has however many more scoring shots. 

So the midfield, what is the issue? 

I don't think its purely a personnel problem, sure the addition of tracc to the midfield would help but before he got injured he was looking like playing a lot more time forward anyway so not sure we can attribute our problems to a lack of tracc. 

Therefore, imo I think its clearly a system/coaching issue. I don't think its a coincidence that we lose yze and we have our worst midfield year for a very long time. I questioned earlier in the year whether McQualter has had a damaging impact on our mids and i'm posing the question again because i can't see another obvious reason for how our midfield is performing at the moment. Maybe its a lack of effort by the players but I really don't think thats true, they may not have played well tonight but i still thought they tried hard. 

Interested in what others think has gone wrong with the midfield?? 

(Also acknowledge that tonight around half of their points were off the back of turnover but I still think it holds true that our midfield has been woeful this year and if we want any chance of being a competitive side again, that is what we need to fix asap.) 

The midfield cracks have been there for a while and anyone who thought we didn't have any issues in there this year is kidding themselves. No depth, no real rotations an underdone Clarry, an overdone Viney, no other real prospects, the writing has been on the wall.

The AFL is a 'not for long' competition. If you're not careful other teams can zip past you in an instant. It's not a matter of setting our stud midfield in 2021 and telling ourselves that this unit will dominate for a decade. It needs invigoration. Rivers has been the big positive to come out of all this and with some smart drafting and trading we cam be back up there. 

PS: Freedom fighters and PC principals take note of the last line when we're doing well again and you want to pot everyone who had doubts and you feel needs to apologise. 

Edited August 2 by layzie

[Bowserpower 166]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

When we lost Gus we lost our season. 

 

That's silly, one player doesn't make a team. Especially when that team is full of premiership players.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,865]

51 minutes ago, Bowserpower said:

Thought we were doing alright at HT and the Dogs kept us in it. Was shocked to see them come out in the second half the way they did.

I'm shocked at how shocked you were.

[bing181 9,328]

26 minutes ago, Tom Dyson said:

Therefore, imo I think its clearly a system/coaching issue. I don't think its a coincidence that we lose yze and we have our worst midfield year for a very long time

So nothing to do with the fact that Oliver had no pre-season and is playing with a hand held together by pins, or that Viney is probably so shot full of painkillers to get through a game that it's a wonder he can remember which direction to kick in? And that we lost Brayshaw as well as Petracca? Our A-grade midfield has been decimated and is being held together by a half back flanker thrown in there to shore it up.

Once agin, just what were people expecting? 

Edited August 2 by bing181

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

Critiques of Tholstrup are ridiculous. He's a first year player having a crack. It will come with a bit more experience and a calmer head.

Yep he goes ok.  There's a player in there given time, some decent coaching, guidance and at least 50+ games under his belt.

Too early to write him off.

He has the white line fever in him as well which is something you can't teach but critical as a base line starting attitude at this level.  More of this in our future recruits plus skills & some leg speed pls.

[Pirlo 813]

The Suns choking, as per usual, means we won't get their higher pick...

Onto the game:

1. Absolutely flat across the board. The team went in with no confidence or desire and it showed.
2. I like mixing it up, but the season is on the line and we had Woey, Tholstrup and Bowey in at various centre bounces early on.
3. Some good acrobatics from Fritsch
4. Oliver: I'm struggling to stay on board. Love him for all he's done but he's one of our key senior players and there were three absolutely awful efforts in the first 5 minutes of the game that set the tone. He's being paid $1m a year and is being scaled UP with the CBA increasing. 
5. We have about three meaningful injuries, this is close to our best 22. Grim.
6. May's back will eventually be the end of him. Just hope he can nurse it through two more seasons.
7. TMac - THUD back down to earth... Two stinkers. Such a good season but age is showing now. Was embarrassed by a stronger man last week and a younger, more atheltic one this time. Flew at everything up forward like a man who knew he wasn't being swung forward to help us win, but was moved out of the way because he was a liability down back. He can have a one year deal on minimum coin, but the club would be derelict to offer him more. If another club offers him two, let him go.
8. Melky - struggling to make an impact now. Needs a pre-season but we'll see at his age.
9. JVR had about a month up forward where he looked untouchable. Then two weeks in the ruck. Now he can't get near it up forward again, as per the start of the season. Give the kid some [censored] consistency. 
10. Jefferson kicked 4 and surely gets a go next week. Petty back and TMac dropped would be my preference.

And the big one - 'the kids'. I'm glad we're playing them, I like the idea that we're being bold, but let's cast a critical eye over the spread of talent. Windsor, McVee, Rivers, Pickett & JVR are the only under 23s worth singing about right now. If they're tier 1 talent, the rest are either first year kids or tier 3 on exposed form. They all have a long way to go.

I imagine he'll be fine long term, and I may get flamed for this (I love his attitude as much as everyone else), but I am struggling to see what Kolt's main strength is aside from his hunger at the ball. A long way to go, and I'll back him in, but it hasn't been the most convincing start to his career. We're a [censored] team, but not [censored] enough that he has to shoulder any load.

Taj isn't improving (being sub 10 weeks in a row didn't help), Andy shows a bit but isn't as quick as advertised, Disco was ok in defence while the ball was raining in. Bowey is a battler, unfortunately. Was carried by the star-studded defence. Howes hasn't been the same since he was dropped. 

Goodwin deserves blame for this. The commentators' only salient point of the evening was that Geelong and Sydney are so good at rebuilding on the go because they run 2 or 3 decent kids through their team when they're good and help build them up. We didn't take those risks, beyond the absolute best 22 ones, and here we are. 

[Pirlo 813]

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

When we lost Gus we lost our season. 

 

I love Gus, but I'm so tired of hearing this. It gives the group and the club an out for various, systematic miscalculations. He was a gun, and a heart and soul player, but he was our fourth choice inside mid. A valuable rotation, and a super versatile player, but let's not indulge the fantasy that he would have changed much on his own. Had an elite season off the HBF in 22, and a great one on the wing in 21, but would he have moved the needle a huge amount this season? 

Edited August 2 by Pirlo

[Wizard of Koz 1,128]

1 hour ago, Dave1711 said:

Just pathetic, I know we jump on Goodwin but tonight showed he’s lost the players, playing with no heart, the selection is unfair, continues to play out of form players. He’s finished at our club, he has lost the players, reckon we should go get a young gun coach or bring in Nathan Buckley. 

After an intense and draining style of footy over the 3 years preceding the players are physically wrecked and looked emotionally worn. 

If the team kicked straight last year every chance Goody is a 2 time flag coach. 

The lack of loyalty and trust in Goodwin is a bit galling. Max, Oliver, Viney, Petty all look 25% fit and no Trac and Salem. Brayshaw is a bigger loss than most of us probably thought. Thats the issue. Goodwin is a good coach, a premiership coach and more than deserves the opportunity to pivot and reset.

List management is the issue. We have brought second hand duds in and somehow having Schace, Tomlinson, Fullerton and BBrown is a major liability. Thats the angle I would be looking at.

Edited August 2 by Wizard of Koz

[Bowserpower 166]

We need to get down to the nitty gritty of this. We are not playing well and putting it down to one player is pointless.

[Heart Beats True 1,256]

16 minutes ago, bing181 said:

So nothing to do with the fact that Oliver had no pre-season and is playing with a hand held together by pins, or that Viney is probably so shot full of painkillers to get through a game that it's a wonder he can remember which direction to kick in? And that we lost Brayshaw as well as Petracca? Our A-grade midfield has been decimated and is being held together by a half back flanker thrown in there to shore it up.

Once agin, just what were people expecting? 

No preseason isn’t quite correct. He started training in late January. He has had an ordinary year for a multitude of reasons. I do think he can bounce back though.

[Pirlo 813]

1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

Some of you need to understand where the Dogs are right now. Beat Carlton, the Cats by 47 at Taxpayer Park, then Sydney by 39 at the SCG.

We are without Brayshaw, Trac and a fully fit Olly and Gawn and are rebuilding on the run. And that was no capitulation. We were outclassed but it was fought out and we upped our pressure in the second half. 

 

You must have missed the first 10 minutes, when we didn't have a single disposal in our attacking half. They had 21 more scoring shots than us. Well done Melbourne for upping their pressure in the second half when the game was over.

[Pirlo 813]

1 hour ago, Maldonboy38 said:

With the exception of Viney who has been superb for most of this year, our midfield has lacked intensity and often lost contested possession count.

Do you mean Rivers? Viney has absolutely toiled most of the year compared to his high standards. He's running like his plantar fasciitis is back.

[bing181 9,328]

3 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

He started training in late January.

Nothing like enough. He also broke his hand and is apparently playing with pins and painkillers.

[layzie 33,991]

9 minutes ago, Wizard of Koz said:

After an intense and draining style of footy over the 3 years preceding the players are physically wrecked and looked emotionally worn. 

If the team kicked straight last year every chance Goody is a 2 time flag coach. 

The lack of loyalty and trust in Goodwin is a bit galling. Max, Oliver, Viney, Petty all look 25% fit and no Trac and Salem. Brayshaw is a bigger loss than most of us probably thought. Thats the issue. Goodwin is a good coach, a premiership coach and more than deserves the opportunity to pivot and reset.

List management is the issue. We have brought second hand duds in and somehow having Schace, Tomlinson, Fullerton and BBrown is a major liability. Thats the angle I would be looking at.

Being in a crabby mood my instant reaction right now is to tell everyone that they don't know what they're talking about but I think that you're absolutely spot on. 

[Pirlo 813]

49 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

We also need to be ruthless in big decisions about some veteran players:

BBB - retire

Shache - delisted 

Hunter - delisted

Salem - trade

Sparrow - not sure what to do with him

McAdam - same as above 

Tommo - gone to a new club 

Is this ruthless? Ruthless would be sweeping a broom through the above names and taking whatever we can get for the latter four, topping up with a few free agents to take up our cap space, and going hard at the higher end of the draft while Max, May, Viney are still around to mentor the kids. It has been unthinkable for me until tonight, but perhaps even having an honest chat with Oliver and sounding out where he's really at ahead of pre-season.

[layzie 33,991]

15 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

I love Gus, but I'm so tired of hearing this. It gives the group and the club an out for various, systematic miscalculations. He was a gun, and a heart and soul player, but he was our fourth choice inside mid. A valuable rotation, and a super versatile player, but let's not indulge the fantasy that he would have changed much on his own. Had an elite season off the HBF in 22, and a great one on the wing in 21, but would he have moved the needle a huge amount this season? 

I am also getting tired of hearing this, especially after half the site were refusing to acknowledge his worth and were prepared to put him up for trade this time last year.

But I think there is truth to this one. I'm really starting to think his value off the field was as big of a deal as his value on it. Going back to 22 when he signed his deal and we then went over to Perth and knocked Freo off, the team seemed to get a huge lift. You can't put this all down to that of course, but you also could. 

I think it ripped the heart out of a lot of our guys to see what happened to him against Collingwood. In some ways it might have changed them forever, do you walk as tall after seeing something like that happen to someone you respect so much? I don't know.

We were never a one man team but it's  big factor, just like Clary being underdone, just like Petty coming off the lisfranc, just like Trac, just like everything.

[Hellfire Dub 165]

2 hours ago, Colm said:

What was more interesting was giving up picks 27 & 35 to move up 3 places and get the Kolt. Darcy Wilson went at our original pick. 
We could have traded those picks into this years draft and put ourselves into a much better position.  

Colm, is this just the result of going for broke in trying to trade up for Reid and then being left in an awkward spot?  Who else were were going for around that pick because they travelled over to meet him so the club were serious about bringing him in.  I think it's much too early to write him off and I like his aggression 

[Pirlo 813]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

I am also getting tired of hearing this, especially after half the site were refusing to acknowledge his worth and were prepared to put him up for trade this time last year.

But I think there is truth to this one. I'm really starting to think his value off the field was as big of a deal as his value on it. Going back to 22 when he signed his deal and we then went over to Perth and knocked Freo off, the team seemed to get a huge lift. You can't put this all down to that of course, but you also could. 

I think it ripped the heart out of a lot of our guys to see what happened to him against Collingwood. In some ways it might have changed them forever, do you walk as tall after seeing something like that happen to someone you respect so much? I don't know.

We were never a one man team but it's  big factor, just like Clary being underdone, just like Petty coming off the lisfranc, just like Trac, just like everything.

Quite possibly, but that suggests a soft underbelly to this team that directly correlates with what we've seen the last two Septembers. Every team goes through adversity. We're handling ours terribly.

[Bowserpower 166]

Would anyone be surprised if May finishes up this year?

[layzie 33,991]

11 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

Quite possibly, but that suggests a soft underbelly to this team that directly correlates with what we've seen the last two Septembers. Every team goes through adversity. We're handling ours terribly.

A valid point. We haven't handled it well.

[Demonsone 2,043]

What’s occurred since our flag is a disastrous failure & Goodwin can’t hide from it 0-4 final loses & no finals in 24, pathetic trades who can’t get a senior game! No worthy Ruck other than Gawn playing on 1 leg! Game plan, centre clearances/ mids = Mcqualter failure 

[Left Foot Snap 2,453]

21 minutes ago, Bowserpower said:

Would anyone be surprised if May finishes up this year?

Yes

[Where Demons Dare 250]

Goodwin gambled this season and he lost. He lost it from the very beginning when Brayshaw and Smith were basically forced to retire. He gambled that we had enough talent to get us through to finals with our A grade mids and nothing underneath. Losing our second string mids in Harmes and Jordon (even Dunstan would of been handy this season) have shot us in the foot and we've had to play kids who aren't ready, but have put in a mighty effort.

Anyway I have faith in us next year, the talent is there and a new draftee gun Mid plus Noah Yze will help us back to greatness again soon. Similar to our 2019 disaster of a year... it resulted in some great draftees which launched us to the top of the ladder in 21', I see a similar trajectory and we'll be back in the hunt. Stay the course Demon faithful!