14 hours ago, ex52k2 said:

Also as I recall we gave him two years, for a ruckman who cant ruck.

He was not a ruckman at the Lions when recruited.

He was a forward who was occasionaly asked to pinch hit in the ruck.

54 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Around ground marking is important but that wasn't Petty's main role on the day.

He started off as the 1st ruck and failed miserably.   We then had to throw JVR in in the hope he might offer more resistance.  That didn't work either.

Same happened the week before with JVR coming in to replace Petty early after Petty got wacked in the first Q but luckily the whole day become a contested shiite fest where we were able to wrestle the game back on our terms at ground level with the rain largely making much of any attempted ruck work / craft by Draper ineffectual.

The question is, who do we bring in that will do better?

I don't think we have a better option than Petty & JVR until Max gets back.

8 hours ago, rjay said:

The question is, who do we bring in that will do better?

I don't think we have a better option than Petty & JVR until Max gets back.

We will never know Rjay as Goody refuses to trial anyone else.  As a result SG will never know either.

2 meters Fullo may have given a better edge and won or neutralised a few more contests plus allowed JVR to remain mostly up forward vs Petty.  Emphasis on 'may have'.

Same with Verrall.  Even if you only got 2 quarters of neutralising and a few wins before being subbed (for Petty!?).

We still get well beaten but maybe not as embarrassingly pantsed as we did.

Also remembering we trialled Petty as a back up last time against Freo which was also a monumental fail.

Goodwin's obsession with attempting to get Petty back into some form over the last three months via constant AFL games,  regardless of atrocious form in most of those games, has resulted in us playing a man down for most of that time.

SG finally got his wish (but not in a ruck sense) on Sunday, which was always going to happen if given anough chances, but at what cost to the team in season 2024?

Edited July 23, 2024Jul 23 by Demon Dynasty

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

We will never know Rjay as Goody refuses to trial anyone else.  As a result SG will never know either.

2 meters Fullo may have given a better edge and won or neutralised a few more contests plus allowed JVR to remain mostly up forward vs Petty.  Emphasis on 'may have'.

Same with Verrall.  Even if you only got 2 quarters of neutralising and a few wins before being subbed (for Petty!?).

We still get well beaten but maybe not as embarrassingly pantsed as we did.

Also remembering we trialled Petty as a back up last time against Freo which was also a monumental fail.

Goodwin's obsession with attempting to get Petty back into some form over the last three months via constant AFL games,  regardless of atrocious form in most of those games, has resulted in us playing a man down for most of that time.

SG finally got his wish (but not in a ruck sense) on Sunday, which was always going to happen if given anough chances, but at what cost to the team in season 2024?

Come on 'DD'...you've watched the Casey games.

There is no way that he is competitive enough in the ruck to play the position at AFL level.

If you are going to attack anything it should be the list management decisions not selection.

21 hours ago, rjay said:

OK, so who was this specialist ruckman we should have selected 'SWYL'???

You are a dill RJ. SWYL is not the recruiting department.

Goodie & his assistants are paid good $ to make sure we have a balanced list.

To go into 2024 with only one 32 y old ruckman who is up to standard is a woeful performance. Shame on them.

11 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

He was not a ruckman at the Lions when recruited.

He was a forward who was occasionaly asked to pinch hit in the ruck.

I think thats right, So weird we can't seem to get him fwd time.

On 21/07/2024 at 17:56, spirit of norm smith said:

Let’s trade away Grundy 

Let’s not replace Grundy 

If Gawn gets injured then … we are farrrrrkd!!!! 
 

That’s on Goodwin.  

Have you considered the possibility that Grundy agreed to join us on a commitment to playing 2 rucks and that when this plan didn't work the right thing to do was to help facilitate a trade. The feeling I have is that our Footy Department act on good faith and this approach has served us well in retaining our talent and also in attracting the players that we target at fair value.

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

We will never know Rjay as Goody refuses to trial anyone else.  As a result SG will never know either.

2 meters Fullo may have given a better edge and won or neutralised a few more contests plus allowed JVR to remain mostly up forward vs Petty.  Emphasis on 'may have'.

Same with Verrall.  Even if you only got 2 quarters of neutralising and a few wins before being subbed (for Petty!?).

We still get well beaten but maybe not as embarrassingly pantsed as we did.

Also remembering we trialled Petty as a back up last time against Freo which was also a monumental fail.

Goodwin's obsession with attempting to get Petty back into some form over the last three months via constant AFL games,  regardless of atrocious form in most of those games, has resulted in us playing a man down for most of that time.

SG finally got his wish (but not in a ruck sense) on Sunday, which was always going to happen if given anough chances, but at what cost to the team in season 2024?

What nonsense, if we are going to cause any damage in September we cannot rely on Gawn at every stoppage and need Petty providing a contest. I've seen plenty of evidence over the past 5 years of our coaching group adapting and finding form when we are struggling to put us in the best place to play and win finals. I also accept that this year we have made changes to how we move the ball and have also injected alot of youth into our side both planned and through necessity that make it harder to win games now but should pay dividends over the next few years.

On 13/07/2024 at 22:54, Ollie fan said:

So underrated.

It looked to me like Scott started the game with his very tall forwards going up the ground to draw May and Lever with them, and destroy our defensive structure. And it worked. But Goody somehow turned it around, got our structure back on track, and we kept them to about 3 goals for the next 2 1/2 quarters, until the incredible effort told on our players.

 He covered the loss of Max by alternating relatively unknown "ruckmen" against Draper, and adjusting our centre square setup, so we held our own in clearances.

 And as happens so often,  there players, who obviously love him, produced an extraordinary effort and showed the opposition up.

A totally underrated coach.

 

 

Overated for these reasons

1 No plan b or c if things go astray on match day

2 Traded Grundy

3 Some players are untouchable at selection

4 Has anyone heard him take responsibility for Ruck error last week? Swarta is on the money with this

5 In my belief he has run his race and our premiership window has ended

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Overated for these reasons

1 No plan b or c if things go astray on match day

2 Traded Grundy

3 Some players are untouchable at selection

4 Has anyone heard him take responsibility for Ruck error last week? Swarta is on the money with this

5 In my belief he has run his race and our premiership window has ended

Completely disagree.

1.   Many times you see us losing at first but him then making changes, often subtle ones, at 1/4 time which bring us back into the game. But no, he doesn't tell us try completely change our game style mid-game, and he'd be a fool if he did.

2.   Broken record. The Grundy experiment failed. If he was still at Melbourne... - well, it is impossible to imagine. Playing him with Max didn't work, but should we have kept him freezing his backside off at Casey? Is that a respectful way to treat a former AA player? Wild it inspire the rest of the team? I don't think so.

3.  His comments about cohesion were interesting and justified and explain a lot about why he doesn't like to make changes.

4.   What was the "error"? Not playing Fullarton? It is very clear that the club tried to get a backup ruck but they are hard to find and if they are any good they will not accept being backup (eg Grundy).  They obviously hoped Fullarton might be a chance and equally obviously, he is not the answer.

5.   He is doing a pretty good job of rebuilding on the run. Unfortunately we lost Gus and Smithy in circumstances which did not allow us to replace them on our list. Oliver has been a shadow but I know you like him as much as I do and we all hope he will get back to best form. Throughout our "premiership window" we have had a lack of quality KPFs but that is changing: I am very confident that next year JVR will emerge as a champion and we have Jefferson on the way, Turner learning the position, and I am a believer in Petty.  And since Goodwin is actually a very good coach, with a clear method and with the total respect of the players, I don't see the window as shut at all.

Goody is a bad coach and or his associates. Expecting Grundy to kick goals was a mistake. Not playing Grundy in the finals ( perhaps a final ) was another mistake. Brayshaw after having so many concussions was always close to retirement.Finally it happened. Lack of vision . The loss of Jackson really hurt us as he could play in many positions. We pick up Kentfield when we should have pick up a midfielder. Rivers should have become a mid after Jackson's departure.We don't drop players when we constantly lose. Petty should have been dropped along with chandler and Fritisch , there is nothing wrong with given trhese players a wake up call.

1 hour ago, COOLX said:

Goody is a bad coach and or his associates. Expecting Grundy to kick goals was a mistake. Not playing Grundy in the finals ( perhaps a final ) was another mistake. Brayshaw after having so many concussions was always close to retirement.Finally it happened. Lack of vision . The loss of Jackson really hurt us as he could play in many positions. We pick up Kentfield when we should have pick up a midfielder. Rivers should have become a mid after Jackson's departure.We don't drop players when we constantly lose. Petty should have been dropped along with chandler and Fritisch , there is nothing wrong with given trhese players a wake up call.

There are so many things wrong with this that it's hard to know where to begin. I'll take just one: that when Jackson left, Rivers should have become a mid. Who would he have replaced? (This was at the start of 2023, remember). Gus, Trac, Clarry, or Jack?  
 

A "wake up call"  - the implication is that the players you mention weren't trying. Do you even watch the games? Of course, on Demonland it was a proven scientific fact that Petty wasn't trying because he was waiting and determined to go to Adelaide.....er..... well......  It just might have been that after a very serious foot injury, of the type that takes about 2 years before the player regains full confidence, he was struggling...

Actually, why do I bother?

In our 186 pt loss to Geelong years ago, were our players not trying? Of course they were!!!!! Petty so called foot injury may take time and therefore affect his ability, so why not play him in the reserves until he regains form. If Goody is not going to drop anyone then what is the point of trying in the reserves? 

5 minutes ago, COOLX said:

In our 186 pt loss to Geelong years ago, were our players not trying? Of course they were!!!!! Petty so called foot injury may take time and therefore affect his ability, so why not play him in the reserves until he regains form. If Goody is not going to drop anyone then what is the point of trying in the reserves? 

That's wasn't my point. You said they should be dropped as a" wake up call "  -  which can only be for not trying.

On 23/07/2024 at 08:32, Travy14 said:

I don't think they recruited him as a ruck, more a fwd/ruck and and hopefully a back up.  I have a feeling he hasn't developed the way they would have hoped, his handful of games for Bris he looked OK without setting the world on fire.

Could be on our development or his work ethic, who knows

With the number of promising recruits and possibly useful transfers (imports) into our team across the past few years, who have either stayed stagnant as footballers (not making regular appearances in the AFL team or producing the promise they have held for the future, or have been traded out to other clubs - some with pleasing form improvements under other coaching panels) it would appear that across the last five to six years our development work and absolute recruiting agendas have seriously been left wanting. We are now experiencing a talent deficit, although some young guns have displayed terrific, accelerated form potentials. This is surely a deficit within the laws of averages for both recruitment and intensified player development, and one that locks us into a state of continuing, middle-order mediocrity.