Deep Midfield Issues

[Moonshadow 17,471]

And we're robbing Peter to pay Paul by playing Trac as a forward more than mid. He's a star wherever he plays, but we are a very average midfield without him.

In three years time we may be without Gawn, Viney and May. And Trac and Lever fast approaching 30. Oliver heading toward C grade.

Our flag window is definitely closed with this list. Time to hit the FAs and trade table.

Need a ruck (Moyle?), a couple of high end mids with decent foot skills and a key back or two.

[KingDingAling 3,737]

10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

And we're robbing Peter to pay Paul by playing Trac as a forward more than mid. He's a star wherever he plays, but we are a very average midfield without him.

In three years time we may be without Gawn, Viney and May. And Trac and Lever fast approaching 30. Oliver heading toward C grade.

Our flag window is definitely closed with this list. Time to hit the FAs and trade table.

Need a ruck (Moyle?), a couple of high end mids with decent foot skills and a key back or two.

The young kid Sampson Ryan from Richmond, he’s a far better pick up. He’s the next Max Gawn. Go get him football department. Can also kick straight. Next best ruck in the game.

Petracca definitely has to be a full time mid. Turner and Petty need to play as full time backs. TMAC May as well play forward as we’re waiting on Jefferson and JVR, who aren’t there this year. It’s a gap year for us forward wise, which isn’t great for our list trajectory, but it is what it is. 
 

Our window was closing last year, as we had an opportunity to select a couple of extremely classy and quick youthful wingers to help our spread/pace on the outside. Glad we got one in Windsor. But it was a massive error to not pick Darcy Wilson. We also overpaid for McAdam. We didn’t need Billings. I’ll stop there. Could keep going and going. 

[DeeSpencer 24,684]

22 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

And we're robbing Peter to pay Paul by playing Trac as a forward more than mid. He's a star wherever he plays, but we are a very average midfield without him.

In three years time we may be without Gawn, Viney and May. And Trac and Lever fast approaching 30. Oliver heading toward C grade.

Our flag window is definitely closed with this list. Time to hit the FAs and trade table.

Need a ruck (Moyle?), a couple of high end mids with decent foot skills and a key back or two.

Tracc’s work rate as a mid and turnovers have made him somewhat a liability in a lot of games on ball. He’s a forward because we need run on the ball nearly as much as because we need a forward.

We almost have to use Tracc and Kossie in centre bounces then swap them for around the ground mids, not that we really have any of those!

[Adam The God 29,324]

24 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Our flag window is definitely closed with this list. Time to hit the FAs and trade table.

This makes no sense to me. If the flag window was closed, you'd be clearing out and looking to bottom out, not go after FAs.

I disagree though. I don't think the window is closed, but we definitely have huge problems.

[Deesprate 1,323]

3 hours ago, Bang Bang Bang said:

Oliver playing like a regular C grade midfielder this year instead of the contested beast he once was has hurt us the most. Viney is 30 so only natural for him to be slowing down. Trac is playing too much of a hybrid role to impact in there. Kosi has been good. Definitely need more depth. I like Windsor but there’s no question the failed Harley Reid trade would have helped us immensely. 

Not trying to be smart but reckon your right Reid would have helped just a little

[Moonshadow 17,471]

59 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

This makes no sense to me. If the flag window was closed, you'd be clearing out and looking to bottom out, not go after FAs.

I disagree though. I don't think the window is closed, but we definitely have huge problems.

Name a flag contender with "huge" problems like us? Sydney, Port, Carlton? Freo? Yeah, nah

I'll spell it out again... with the current list our flag window is shut. We are 10th on the ladder. If we hit the FA market and trade wisely we might just be in the mix again next year, one 18 yr old top ten pick is handy, but won't be enough. Otherwise we will definitely bottom out over the next 2 years

Argue all you like, and no doubt you will, but take the red n blue glasses off and you'll see we are heading towards deep trouble

Of course, we could win the next 13 games and blitz through to our 14th 🏆, in which case I'll bear my rrse in Bourke St. Think I'm safe there, but 

Edited June 2 by Moonshadow

[titan_uranus 24,562]

1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Name a flag contender with "huge" problems like us? Sydney, Port, Carlton? Freo? Yeah, nah

I'll spell it out again... with the current list our flag window is shut. We are 10th on the ladder. If we hit the FA market and trade wisely we might just be in the mix again next year, one 18 yr old top ten pick is handy, but won't be enough. Otherwise we will definitely bottom out over the next 2 years

Argue all you like, and no doubt you will, but take the red n blue glasses off and you'll see we are heading towards deep trouble

Of course, we could win the next 13 games and blitz through to our 14th 🏆, in which case I'll bear my rrse in Bourke St. Think I'm safe there, but 

Over and out

I agree that @Binmans PA got it wrong by saying we’re a contender but have huge problems. 

That’s an oxymoron. 

On our current form we are closer to the bottom 4 than the top 4. On our current form our problems appear fatal to our season. 

[Adam The God 29,324]

11 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Name a flag contender with "huge" problems like us? Sydney, Port, Carlton? Freo? Yeah, nah

I'll spell it out again... with the current list our flag window is shut. We are 10th on the ladder. If we hit the FA market and trade wisely we might just be in the mix again next year, one 18 yr old top ten pick is handy, but won't be enough. Otherwise we will definitely bottom out over the next 2 years

Argue all you like, and no doubt you will, but take the red n blue glasses off and you'll see we are heading towards deep trouble

Of course, we could win the next 13 games and blitz through to our 14th 🏆, in which case I'll bear my rrse in Bourke St. Think I'm safe there, but 

Over and out

The point I was making was if the window is shut, you don't go off and top up with FAs, you rebuild instead.

As for our problems, we have huge problems, very unlikely we make the top 4. 2 of the last 3 games have been deplorable, plus that first quarter against Carlton.

We're completely inconsistent, lurching wildly from heinous to solid. If it continues, we will miss the 8 altogether.

[Adam The God 29,324]

11 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I agree that @Binmans PA got it wrong by saying we’re a contender but have huge problems. 

That’s an oxymoron. 

On our current form we are closer to the bottom 4 than the top 4. On our current form our problems appear fatal to our season. 

What? Where did I say we're a contender? That's putting words in my mouth...

There's a difference between your window being shut and not being up to it at the moment. 

Read my post above, top 4 is probably shot now, and we're now a real shot at missing the 8 altogether.

[Moonshadow 17,471]

2 hours ago, JTR said:

But I thought Stafford was the problem and all we needed was a decent tall forward?

We have problems all over the ground, which will increase in the next few years

It's fair to say that for a variety of reasons our forward line hasn't exactly flourished under Stafford's tutelage 

[Moonshadow 17,471]

5 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

The point I was making was if the window is shut, you don't go off and top up with FAs, you rebuild instead.

As for our problems, we have huge problems, very unlikely we make the top 4. 2 of the last 3 games have been deplorable, plus that first quarter against Carlton.

We're completely inconsistent, lurching wildly from heinous to solid. If it continues, we will miss the 8 altogether.

You're not making sense, Adam.

You think that our window is still open, but we aren't a contender and have huge problems?

If you read my post I wrote that our window is shut with our current list. You disagree. Time will tell.

Let's revisit at the end of the year so I can gloat 😉

[Adam The God 29,324]

10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

You're not making sense, Adam.

You think that our window is still open, but we aren't a contender and have huge problems?

If you read my post I wrote that our window is shut with our current list. You disagree. Time will tell.

Let's revisit at the end of the year so I can gloat 😉

I'm arguing that you can have a down year without being out of your window.

So you can gloat at the end of the year, but it doesn't answer the question.

[Golly123 47]

I'd drop Viney.

[Nicko 1,377]

1 minute ago, Golly123 said:

I'd drop Viney.

You must be a Collingwood supporter 🤣

[Jjrogan 1,391]

Nothing gonna change I reckon. There was a good comment a few weeks back that as long as we keep playing this handball receives/play on style we will have problems because we don't have the smarts to make the right decision let alone execute it. Its only a matter of time the ball falls into the hands of Oliver or Viney or Anb running past and they don't make the right decision or execute consistently enough. Might need to resort back to a high stoppage, slow pace style as it plays to our midfields strengths. 

If we want to play this quick style, there's only one player on our list capable of taking the right option every time on instinct at pace.  And he's stuck in a back pocket in a 94 point drubbing.  Masterful and creative coaching!

Edited June 2 by Jjrogan

[Moonshadow 17,471]

17 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I'm arguing that you can have a down year without being out of your window.

So you can gloat at the end of the year, but it doesn't answer the question.

I thought yours was a statement rather than a question???

So you think with our current list our window is still open next year? No need for FAs or hard trading?

Good luck with that!

 

Edited June 2 by Moonshadow

[Swooper Northey 456]

Our midfield, considered the competition's best in our premiership year, is now seriously short on depth, leaving too much to too few. A team like the Dockers today had no shortage of quality and strength rolling through the middle of ground - Brayshaw, Serong, Young, Fyfe and O'Meara to name a few. We rely far too heavily on Petracca, Viney and Oliver, a player we can't forget came off a highly concerning and interrupted pre-season. That lack of depth (plus preparation for Oliver) and line-breaking speed is fast becoming an issue as shown against the Lions, the Eagles and now brutally, the Dockers. 

We obviously haven't been able to replace Gus as a mature, skilled and smart midfielder which is understandable given the timing of his retirement, but his absence without a natural successor is really noticeable and it's something we must address post season, particularly if we want to remain a strong contested ball team and have the flexibility of sending Petracca forward. 

Clubs like Carlton meanwhile, have been able to add depth to their midfield ranks and therefore better support their star on-ballers such as Cripps and Walsh by picking up other strong, big bodied mids like Hewett, Kennedy and Acres. Sydney too have added Jordon and Adams to their midfield mix which has allowed Heaney to play the way that he is. By comparison our stocks look slim and one-dimensional .

[Adam The God 29,324]

8 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I thought yours was a statement rather than a question???

So you think with our current list our window is still open next year? No need for FAs or hard trading?

Good luck with that!

 

It's hard to tell until the end of the year. A lot of water to pass under the bridge yet.

But no, when someone says the window is closed, that doesn't mean you can open your window with a couple of FAs or "hard trading" (whatever that is). 

The window being shut means the nucleus of your team (Gawn, Viney, Clarry, Trac, May and Lever) won't win another flag.

I think it's too early to call that.

You disagree, fine.

[Moonshadow 17,471]

(Posted twice)

Edited June 2 by Moonshadow

[JJJ 1,001]

I think the 24 Doomsday clock has ticked past midnight… ie the current group is requiring reinforcements to bring us back to 11:55pm.

LDU from North and Lukosius from GC or players of that ilk could help drag us back into a position to compete for a Premiership in the next 18 months. That and a dose of (shudders) internal development and luck with injuries. Maybe jag a player in the draft too.

Of course that is easier said than done. We don’t seem to attract players like the above and JVR aside, I’ve not seen a lot from our recent draftees that points to brighter future. Even Bowza has stalled since a scintillating start. 

[Moonshadow 17,471]

6 minutes ago, Swooper Northey said:

Our midfield, considered the competition's best in our premiership year, is now seriously short on depth, leaving too much to too few. A team like the Dockers today had no shortage of quality and strength rolling through the middle of ground - Brayshaw, Serong, Young, Fyfe and O'Meara to name a few. We rely far too heavily on Petracca, Viney and Oliver, a player we can't forget came off a highly concerning and interrupted pre-season. That lack of depth (plus preparation for Oliver) and line-breaking speed is fast becoming an issue as shown against the Lions, the Eagles and now brutally, the Dockers. 

We obviously haven't been able to replace Gus as a mature, skilled and smart midfielder which is understandable given the timing of his retirement, but his absence without a natural successor is really noticeable and it's something we must address post season, particularly if we want to remain a strong contested ball team and have the flexibility of sending Petracca forward. 

Clubs like Carlton meanwhile, have been able to add depth to their midfield ranks and therefore better support their star on-ballers such as Cripps and Walsh by picking up other strong, big bodied mids like Hewett, Kennedy and Acres. Sydney too have added Jordon and Adams to their midfield mix which has allowed Heaney to play the way that he is. By comparison our stocks look slim and one-dimensional .

Perhaps players considering a move look at what happened to Grundy and think twice. Simplistic to say, but he was our last big recruit since May/Lever a looong time ago

[Abyssal 434]

3 hours ago, Garbo said:

I guess the question is do we have any other options, 

I’d like to see Oliver out in some space.

Playing him on a wing gives him more space plus might take some pressure off him.

In addition, in a one on one in space, even in his  current form, he would win most contests, resulting in building his confidence.

He could be a real weapon for us in that situation.

Rivers into the guts to replace him. 
 

[fr_ap 2,425]

Feel like I'm in la la land. I wrote a long thread about this in preseason and was widely shot down. It was really really really obvious this was coming. And I wrote that before Gus retired. 

It's been obvious for weeks or months now, certainly for anyone who went to the Brisbane game in the flesh. 

[JJJ 1,001]

Oh also re JJ leaving. He didn’t leave for greater opportunity, Horse Longmire  spoke to him about a specific role that’s true, he left for money. We were way off and couldn’t match it.

[kozzyisalegend 151]

Got the best ruckman in the comp

2 all australian midfielders 

A contested beast in viney

Yet we continuously get destroyed in contested possessions and clearances

Why?

Is it set up? Or are they just not very good ? Or is it effort ?