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PODCAST: Rd 10 vs West Coast

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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16 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Eagles monstered us in contested marking all around the ground. That's why we didn't generate many turnovers imo. 

Waterman and Reid played like the second coming of Carey and Judd 2.0. 

We didn't play our best but please dont talk about loading Binners. 

They also monstered us in contested possession and ground ball gets in the first half when most of the damage in this game was done. Contested possession got even up by the end of the game but it was a case of too little too late.

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    I know George wasn’t exactly complimentary about Ollie Sestan’s form last week at Casey but I’ve been watching him closely and he had a great game for Casey on the weekend booting four goals. Is it time we start looking at him and giving him run in the seniors? Who else at Casey do you see getting a game this season? 
    Keep up the good work.

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    Just wondering how much effect the Lever injury had on our fortunes in the game. I know the Eagles got out to a hot start against us even before Jake went off with concussion but I thought that maybe we could have righted the ship as we've had some similar slow starts and clawed our way back into contests once we settle. Having Lever off really unsettled us down back and we never recovered once we lost once of our best weapons in our interceptor. What do you guys think?

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    Just now, Singa said:

    Just wondering how much effect the Lever injury had on our fortunes in the game. I know the Eagles got out to a hot start against us even before Jake went off with concussion but I thought that maybe we could have righted the ship as we've had some similar slow starts and clawed our way back into contests once we settle. Having Lever off really unsettled us down back and we never recovered once we lost once of our best weapons in our interceptor. What do you guys think?

    @Singa PM'd me with his question whilst I was cutting off the questions so I quickly reopened the thread for him to get his in.

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    •  

    Another great podcast guys.  Thank you!      
    I needed an uplift after Sunday, and after tuning in on my evening  walk, feel better already.  ❤️💙

    Edited by Deeoldfart

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    Well done for getting up for this podcast.

    Hate to feed binmans monster, but after the pod I checked the tracker and we were so far off in our work rate.  I am putting this performance down to complacency/heat/teamwide flu/loading or whatever reason we want to use.  Below are a few stats comparing our effort v WC compared to our effort v Geelong a few weeks ago.  We were 25%-30% down in work rate across every metric.  The average speed with and without the ball is the most interesting as it compares the average speed of every player in the team when we have the ball and when the oppo have the ball so you can see if we run harder than the opposition to defend when they have it.  We hardly ever get outworked when we don't have the ball. 7.1km/hr is easily our worst performance this year.  The only other times we were outworked this season was against Brisbane (7.4km/hr v their 7.7km/hr).  Most of the team had a day off on Sunday!

    image.png.fe846f48591b5376bdfac5de1e38d22b.png

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    41 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

    Well done for getting up for this podcast.

    Hate to feed binmans monster, but after the pod I checked the tracker and we were so far off in our work rate.  I am putting this performance down to complacency/heat/teamwide flu/loading or whatever reason we want to use.  Below are a few stats comparing our effort v WC compared to our effort v Geelong a few weeks ago.  We were 25%-30% down in work rate across every metric.  The average speed with and without the ball is the most interesting as it compares the average speed of every player in the team when we have the ball and when the oppo have the ball so you can see if we run harder than the opposition to defend when they have it.  We hardly ever get outworked when we don't have the ball. 7.1km/hr is easily our worst performance this year.  The only other times we were outworked this season was against Brisbane (7.4km/hr v their 7.7km/hr).  Most of the team had a day off on Sunday!

    image.png.fe846f48591b5376bdfac5de1e38d22b.png

    It would be interesting to know how much of those numbers are because Ed Langdon was missing. 

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    You may not have pre listened to my question @Demonland.

    But given the Mid Season Rookie draft is 7 days away (9 at the time of recording) didn’t appreciate the dismissive answer to yeah it’s ages away..

    From what I see 12 clubs have at least 1 spot available and some even 2 or Brisbane, north and Richmond.

    If you don’t think this is important, it’s a very short sighted view, given the clubs depth up forward and in the ruck atm.

    Theres a Key Forward playing for the pies who looks likely and a ruckman in geelong that could be of significant interest!

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    One slightly frustrating aspect of the critique this week is that no one ever seems to watch any of the player media — Salo made a big point of talking about the strategy this week of making a fast start this week, and pressure rating reflects. So first question by TDS was quite valid — Albeit one I don’t concur with — in asking if that specific strategy hurt us as opposed to us wearing teams down. 
     

    WCE played with reckless abandon, cus they CAN! Risks came-off, Harley was making a statement, Waterman marked everything even when out of position! It was a bad night, and one we prob NEEDED to lose by a decent margin so we can truly address the current issues — As Hoyne’s data showed weeks ago, we’re not playing well (yet), so maybe an embarrassing loss is what the players needed to really reassess and know where we are at. It was horrible yes and seeing my 10yr old in tears due to fear of being teased all-week, it sucked — but there may be a silver-lining.

    We KNOW our strategy is to not okay so much of a contested game so come finals we’re not beaten-down, so something HAS to change, that’s for sure. 

     

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    2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    It would be interesting to know how much of those numbers are because Ed Langdon was missing. 

    Statistically, bugger all.

    For one thing, whoever replaced him, whilst not covering the same territory or same speeds etc, would still have done their share (eg the gap might be 2kms less distance covered).

    And secondly, they are total numbers, ie 23 players. 

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    2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    It would be interesting to know how much of those numbers are because Ed Langdon was missing. 

    Langdon makes a difference but not 25% over the entire team.  Maybe up to 5%.

    For high speed running, he ran 3.8km against Geelong.  So assuming his replacement ran 0km at high speed we were still down by around 20%.

    He had 5 repeat sprints.  So assuming his replacement on the wing had 0, we were still down by 40%.

    He was not in the top 5 for work rate in attack against Geelong but in defence was 3rd (Melbourne had the top 5 in the game ranging from an average speed of 9.6km/hr - ANB to 8.9km/hr Windsor).  Against WC, we only had 1 of the top 5 (Sparrow) at 8.3km/hr.

     Something was clearly off.

     

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    39 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

    You may not have pre listened to my question @Demonland.

    But given the Mid Season Rookie draft is 7 days away (9 at the time of recording) didn’t appreciate the dismissive answer to yeah it’s ages away..

    From what I see 12 clubs have at least 1 spot available and some even 2 or Brisbane, north and Richmond.

    If you don’t think this is important, it’s a very short sighted view, given the clubs depth up forward and in the ruck atm.

    Theres a Key Forward playing for the pies who looks likely and a ruckman in geelong that could be of significant interest!

    Unfortunately rucks and key fwds that are not already in AFL systems are no good.

    They dont have the fitness base and 0 idea of systems.  This is why teams switch players positions rather than grab lower level Key positions.

    Very few SSP players have had success at AFL level let alone Key position.

    This would work however if you are taking someone with the view of the future and developing them.  But that won't help us this yr

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    51 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

    Unfortunately rucks and key fwds that are not already in AFL systems are no good.

    They dont have the fitness base and 0 idea of systems.  This is why teams switch players positions rather than grab lower level Key positions.

    Very few SSP players have had success at AFL level let alone Key position.

    This would work however if you are taking someone with the view of the future and developing them.  But that won't help us this yr

    I think anyone taken in the mid season draft would go hand in hand for development. If they’re good enough to take for immediate impact and come off they would be good enough to develop. 
     

    Essendon-Nick Martin, Pies-John Noble, Eagles took Maric last year, Richmond took Marlon Pickett. 
     

    The talent it there, you just have to find it and given we lost Brayshaw early I’m sure we have been having a good look! 

    And I’d argue any Key Forward showing promise at VFL/WAFL level would be better than anything we have atm. 
     

    Fair point re Ruckman being a longer shot, but we only have 1.5 back up options in the VFL.

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    22 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

    I think anyone taken in the mid season draft would go hand in hand for development. If they’re good enough to take for immediate impact and come off they would be good enough to develop. 
     

    Essendon-Nick Martin, Pies-John Noble, Eagles took Maric last year, Richmond took Marlon Pickett. 
     

    The talent it there, you just have to find it and given we lost Brayshaw early I’m sure we have been having a good look! 

    And I’d argue any Key Forward showing promise at VFL/WAFL level would be better than anything we have atm. 
     

    Fair point re Ruckman being a longer shot, but we only have 1.5 back up options in the VFL.

    I think you highlighted my point.  Of that list you put up there is 1 Key position player.

    And Picket was an SSP yes but was also an AFL player before that.  Midfielders you will find.  Key position you wont.

    You can argue that about the Key fwds but the fact is there are very few Key fwds and Def in the AFL, so if they are worth it they would be listed.  Big difference to being a good stay at home forward in the lower levels compared to covering 8-12km per game in the AFL.  

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    3 hours ago, binman said:

    Statistically, bugger all.

    For one thing, whoever replaced him, whilst not covering the same territory or same speeds etc, would still have done their share (eg the gap might be 2kms less distance covered).

    And secondly, they are total numbers, ie 23 players. 

    Yep, wouldn’t be more than a 2-4% swing even with Ed, but 3 forced changes certainly isn’t ideal — esp when they’re structurally important players like Roo/Ed. Changes game for Petty/Max & Windsor/Billings and losing Lever like that early can’t be planned for & none are reason we lost in such a disgusting fashion but they culminate in a bit of the ‘why’ in terms of structure & mindset — but McAdam added something in my opinion & Ed will be back this week, I expect a stern response.. let’s hope!

     

    Flag ain’t won in May, but sure can be lost — I for one remain glad we aren’t playing best footy yet, as at SOME point history suggests we will at some point we’ve just gotta hope it ain’t too late. But if I’m betting, it won’t be.. losing by a margin can often force things to be looked at that might not be normally. 

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    On 22/05/2024 at 13:45, Travy14 said:

    I think you highlighted my point.  Of that list you put up there is 1 Key position player.

    And Picket was an SSP yes but was also an AFL player before that.  Midfielders you will find.  Key position you wont.

    You can argue that about the Key fwds but the fact is there are very few Key fwds and Def in the AFL, so if they are worth it they would be listed.  Big difference to being a good stay at home forward in the lower levels compared to covering 8-12km per game in the AFL.  

    More or less I did. 
     

    But we need to find one. I’m hoping Jason Taylor has had enough time since the Brayshaw retirement and more importantly as been told to look for a ready made replacement.

    Its not that our Era/Window is closing, its more that other clubs have come into their own making it harder to win a 🏆.

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    9 hours ago, Doug Reemer said:

    More or less I did. 
     

    But we need to find one. I’m hoping Jason Taylor has had enough time since the Brayshaw retirement and more importantly as been told to look for a ready made replacement.

    Its not that our Era/Window is closing, its more that other clubs have come into their own making it harder to win a 🏆.

    yup 100% i do think our Midfield is very thin with losing Gus, Sparrow hasn't taken that next step unfortunately.  Hopefully JT has something up his sleeve

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