We don't have a leadership issue, we have a forward line talent issue and to a lesser extent, a 2nd ruck issue.  And a forward connection issue

If we're going to win big we need JVR to improve and we need Petty fit & firing

Without 1 of the 2 we're back to a possible T-Mac, an extremely uncertain Brown or a player like Schache who the MC seem to not have much faith in

Unless ... we make the decision to go medium tall with McAdam & Petracca playing decent minutes in the forward line.  But for that to happen we need Clarrie back and firing in the midfield (so Petracca can go forward)

And then there's the other issue apart from the personnel, the mids to forwards connection.  That needs a lot of work too but that's a coaching issue, not a leadership issue

Our issues are technical and we need to fix that

Edited January 29, 20241 yr by Macca

4 hours ago, Wylie D said:

 

monomaniacal

 

Word of the day!! 👏

Sometimes in sport you have to shake things up. Max and Viney appear to be a good combination. But we can't have a repeat of straight sets losses and series of off field issues. A shake up with Lever as skipper and Tracc VC would have been welcome. 

Changing leaders would have likely brought even more external scrutiny imho.  Stability is the message here and agree with view one captain is on field focused and the other captain is off field focused. 

10 hours ago, Macca said:

We don't have a leadership issue, we have a forward line talent issue and to a lesser extent, a 2nd ruck issue.  And a forward connection issue

If we're going to win big we need JVR to improve and we need Petty fit & firing

Without 1 of the 2 we're back to a possible T-Mac, an extremely uncertain Brown or a player like Schache who the MC seem to not have much faith in

Unless ... we make the decision to go medium tall with McAdam & Petracca playing decent minutes in the forward line.  But for that to happen we need Clarrie back and firing in the midfield (so Petracca can go forward)

And then there's the other issue apart from the personnel, the mids to forwards connection.  That needs a lot of work too but that's a coaching issue, not a leadership issue

Our issues are technical and we need to fix that

Agree in the main Macca bit CPs 170 G 152 BH over 8 years is not gonna save us this year

Needs to really kick some bigger scores when and if he goes forward

 

Edited January 29, 20241 yr by Kent

We can't expect Max to keep carrying such a huge load on and off the field forever. The guy turns 33 this year and has a young family to think about.

I desperately want to see him lift the premiership cup on the MCG this year but, whether or not that happens, this has to be his last year as captain.

I'm happy to be the contrary voice on Lever. I think there are significant issues with the way he plays that will see his career come to an end quicker than most expect. He may be a good captain for a year or two, but I don't see him as a sensible choice in the longer term. Clearly Brayshaw has some issues that make him a risky choice as well.

Petracca seems to be the clear next in line, presumably with Viney staying on as vice captain.

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Agree in the main Macca bit CPs 170 G 152 BH over 8 years is not gonna save us this year

Needs to really kick some bigger scores when and if he goes forward

I reckon Petracca could kick 45+ goals in a season if he played deepish forward for decent periods of time

Up until now his forays forward have been fleeting.  But in an ideal world we don't need him forward more than 20% of the time.  And maybe on a HFF rather than deep forward

But we've got forward line issues with regards to quality forwards so we'll have to see how things play out

A lot rests with the availability of Petty and how much JVR improves.  Along with how much contribution we get from McAdam, Billings, Tholstrup, Fritsch, Chandler, Kozzie, ANB and maybe T-Mac or Brown (Fullarton?)

The other issue is the forwards creating separation and the delivery forward along with the speed of the entries and the use of the corridor

So it's not just one player or one thing

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Agree in the main Macca bit CPs 170 G 152 BH over 8 years is not gonna save us this year

Needs to really kick some bigger scores when and if he goes forward

 

Presumably Kent those firgures  you are quoting are Tmacs goals figures of recent years. 

He moved permanently forward in 2018 as far as I can remember and has had 6 years ( not eight) for about 150/160 goals 143/140 behinds He had cameos before 2018 but I am not counting them.

I estimate he has played about 110/120  for those goals as he has had 3 years in 6 with more then half the games in ‘22 and ‘23 plus ‘19 with the last 6 out. 

His best year was 2018 with 53 goals and no fitness worries for a beat full season.

To blame him for our forward woes is both unfair and incorrect as when he plays we have had good success. 

If Tmac had to play in lieu of  either JvR or Harry P then a 40 plus goal season would be taken by most Dees fans. That’s 25 games for the season along with day JVR 35/40, Kossie 40 Fritta 50 plus Trac 30 plus McAdsm 30 and Chin or ANB or Fullarton totalling 30 plus and another 50 goals spread over mids and others we wouldn’t be worrying at all about goals, I wouldn’t think even if Petts is missing say. 

Any case the captaincy really is this topic although I agree that our forward line is our biggest worry but I think our mix is potentially a good one this season 

So Maxy and JV remain but I would prefer thst 4 more leaders be named officially to support our two good ones. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, 58er said:

Presumably Kent those firgures  you are quoting are Tmacs goals figures of recent years. 

He moved permanently forward in 2018 as far as I can remember and has had 6 years ( not eight) for about 150/160 goals 143/140 behinds He had cameos before 2018 but I am not counting them.

I estimate he has played about 110/120  for those goals as he has had 3 years in 6 with more then half the games in ‘22 and ‘23 plus ‘19 with the last 6 out. 

His best year was 2018 with 53 goals and no fitness worries for a beat full season.

To blame him for our forward woes is both unfair and incorrect as when he plays we have had good success. 

If Tmac had to play in lieu of  either JvR or Harry P then a 40 plus goal season would be taken by most Dees fans. That’s 25 games for the season along with day JVR 35/40, Kossie 40 Fritta 50 plus Trac 30 plus McAdsm 30 and Chin or ANB or Fullarton totalling 30 plus and another 50 goals spread over mids and others we wouldn’t be worrying at all about goals, I wouldn’t think even if Petts is missing say. 

Any case the captaincy really is this topic although I agree that our forward line is our biggest worry but I think our mix is potentially a good one this season 

So Maxy and JV remain but I would prefer thst 4 more leaders be named officially to support our two good ones. 
 

 

Figures are Petraccas' over 8 years Just saying him moving forward as suggested elsewhere is not necessarily going to produce more goals this season

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Figures are Petraccas' over 8 years Just saying him moving forward as suggested elsewhere is not necessarily going to produce more goals this season

Sorry thought you were giving Tommy Mac’s figures. However Trac wS  very inaccurate last season his worst accuracy I suspect. 

I am tipping a much better set shot season in 2024 and he might even break the 40 goal barrier especially if he can play up forward more often. 

On 29/01/2024 at 17:11, DeeSpencer said:

Continues a run of overly safe and uninspiring decisions since the flag. 

Was time for someone else.

You continue your run of complaining at any chance you get. 

I would prefer if trac focussed on his own game. I’m just not sure the extra responsibility of captain would suit him. 

On 29/01/2024 at 17:11, DeeSpencer said:

Continues a run of overly safe and uninspiring decisions since the flag. 

Was time for someone else.

Really surprised by this. Your posts are usually on the money.

Speaking of which, as far as I'm concerned DS,  it couldn't buy better leaders.

Cheers.

On 29/01/2024 at 17:31, loges said:

Who ?

Whom?

On 29/01/2024 at 17:11, DeeSpencer said:

Continues a run of overly safe and uninspiring decisions since the flag. 

Was time for someone else.

What a modern club does, is to get the consultants in to test all the players for leadership potential.  The older players might not talk to them so we probably need a five year plan. They will grow into the role if their body holds out.

 

Max is very mature and eats responsibility.  Jack hasn't had that media presence to judge.

 

Max and Jack, what's not to like?, both training fiends, both bleed R+B. One excels at pressure on field, I feel like i'm watching one of the Spartans in 300 when he plays, and the other navigates the media vultures to universal plaudits, with EQ and self-depreciation (and is just quietly the best ruck in the game ATM, and could conceivably pass Sandilands in the all-time stakes). Nothing safe about it, just an excellent one two. And we are blessed with Gus/Trac/Lever, plus other newer blokes who look likely types as well.

I wouldn't mind DS proposing a change, but it is the snide comments about 'safe', that I find denigrating and 'uninspiring' [censored] what are you watching, Coaching team has been reinventing plans every year since 2019, demonstrated innovation etc, some stuff worked, some didn't, but had a bluddy go. Go get a clue. 

I like the way @Poita can say he's not sure about Lever as a long term captain type with out insulting anyone. that's having a conversation.

Lastly I think Trac is more 'instinct', he has the EQ off the field for Captain but on field I feel like he is more in his own zone, where as Max has better 'tone' for connecting to team mates than either Trac or Jack. I'd like Jack as my personal captain, but I get that sledgehammer style is not for the millennials in the room.

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by DEE fence
+B not D, feel like i failed Sesame Street

17 hours ago, BDA said:

I would prefer if trac focussed on his own game. I’m just not sure the extra responsibility of captain would suit him. 

Thanks for the show of faith of one of our true champions. I understand that leadership is not always a champions highest asset but you would be hard pressed to say Trac doesn’t lead by example.

I get that you are worried that Trac might worry too much about leadership and it could potentially affect his game to the detriment of team. 

There is always a chance of that happening but I don’t think it would ruin his game to that extent at this stage of his  career.

We won’t know this season but there are four other leaders as part of the leadership group who I am sure Trac is one of those but they don’t get named generally but are used when necessary by the Capt and His Vice.