can we win a flag without neitz?

[deanox 9,912]

we're not going to win a flag this year, lets be honest, we have been ruined by injuries, among other things. how many years does neitz have left? i'd say this and next at the most...this year we were supposed to be contenders, and i still believe we should have been, if it wasnt for injury. the first couple of games were derailed by a lack of interchange players due to in game injuries and recently we have been exposed as our cream recovers on the sidelines. in the case that DN retires after this year, does our window slam shut? i think we are more chance of winning it next year, with neitz, than without, and in the same vein, i think were more of a chance next year with neitz than we are in 2009 without him, even if that extra year gives our youngsters a chance to enter the fold. frawley, petterd, dunn will only be better players with time, but i think neitz is probably more important as a single entity than any of their developments with respect to winning a flag.

[Gorgoroth 12,947]

yes we can win one with him and without him

[deanox 9,912]

yes we can win one with him and without him

where will the goals come from? coz miller is our leading goal kicker this year, but most people want him delisted or traded, at the very least dropped to sandy...

[Jaded No More 68,903]

I'm sure many will disagree, but I think our forward line operates better with just Robbo as our main target, than just Neita.

Of course, when they both play, it's even better, but it is harder to double-team Robbo because of his leap and size, and we did win a fair amount of games with Robbo at FF in 2005.

Robbo, when on song, is an absolute nightmare for the typical monster FB. You need someone who is extremely good above his head, and who knows how to play from behind to try and stop him. Whereas you can have two guys on Neita, scrag him in the contest (since he never gets a free kick! ), and you'll just about have him covered.

So no, our window is not shut if Neita doesn't go another year.... well, not if McLean is appointed captain and Robbo stays injury free.

[Gorgoroth 12,947]

robbo, dunn, bate maybe newton will step up to the plate but of course we can, west coast dont really have a great power forward, lynch is good but aint no brown, fevola or velvet sledge hammer

we could trade for one or pick one up in the next draft or 2

[grazman 7,432]

Errrr - we haven't won one with him - so yeah I think so. (I'm not trying to be a smartarse - just pointing out that it will come down to more than just one player )

[deanox 9,912]

Errrr - we haven't won one with him - so yeah I think so.

i think i am talking about the changing of the guard that is happening. neitz is part of the clubs old crew, and probably the best part of it. his strength and marking and goal kicking is important but previously he has lacked the support around him, in the midfield, off the half backline. we have a new generation of midfield brock, sylvia, jones, maloney etc) and half backs (petterd, bartram, CJ, bell) which can now combine. my concern is that when neitz leaves, we will be left with what we had before...only half the package. we have this year and next of the cross over before we need to find a new forward and ruck...

[tooly 0]

You guys need to have a look at a good side, we are that far behind the best it's not funny

[godees 861]

You guys need to have a look at a good side, we are that far behind the best it's not funny

Wrong and the team will show you this week against west coast that with most of our players back we are not that far off.

[grazman 7,432]

i think i am talking about the changing of the guard that is happening. neitz is part of the clubs old crew, and probably the best part of it. his strength and marking and goal kicking is important but previously he has lacked the support around him, in the midfield, off the half backline. we have a new generation of midfield brock, sylvia, jones, maloney etc) and half backs (petterd, bartram, CJ, bell) which can now combine. my concern is that when neitz leaves, we will be left with what we had before...only half the package. we have this year and next of the cross over before we need to find a new forward and ruck...

The Neitz, White and Yze era is fast closing. It's now a year by year proposition with those guys. We didn't win a premiership with Robbie, Garry, Jimmy, Todd, Stinga etc. Fev may never play in a premiership at Carlton. If Neita goes, we may not have a dominant full forward to replace him, but hopefully we'll have a top shelf inside midfield, a rock solid defence and lots of drive from the wings and multiple targets up forward. I'll be sad to see the skipper hang up his boots, but at 32 I don't know how much more of the burden we can ask him to shoulder.

[Deefender 232]

We haven't won a flag WITH Neitz much less without him.

That blessed time won't come till the Junction Oval is history

along with Neitz, White, Yze & the rest of the old guard and

the long serving coach Daniher.

I can remember Neitz & Schwartz playing in the Under 19s

and looking forward with confidence :-)

A generation of footballers has now passed... I like what I see

in the youth at the Club but in the intervening years I have

become somewhat jaded in my outlook.

As it happens I believe Daniher has served the Club well

and laid a good foundation.

Forget about Neitz and premiership in the same sentence.

[praha 11,240]

West Coast has been the standout for 3 seasons (including this one) without a standout foward who kicks bags. Davey, Green, Slvia, Brock, Johnstone, Robbo, Dunn, all of these players can kick goals, both on the run and from set-shot.

[deefuture06 0]

We will not win a flag until the Mclean group of players is 25-27 years old, and the Petterd/Jones/Bartram group is 23-24. In the mean time we need to by one or two gun KPP's such as Pavlich, Reiwoldt etc. Hopefully Neaves will develop? Window for a flag is 5 years away.

[Rogue 585]

my concern is that when neitz leaves, we will be left with what we had before...only half the package. we have this year and next of the cross over before we need to find a new forward and ruck...

Not that many guys who are leaving will be irreplaceable. As much props as McDonald has got the last couple of years I don't think his departure will weaken our midfield overall with the majority our mids young and on the improve.

There's a big worry over our ruck division, with White 30 this year and Jamar seemingly consigned to history in the minds of many forum-goers. PJ has played a couple of good games but that doesn't make an AFL-ruck.

Neitz is definitely going to be the biggest age-enforced loss in the next couple of years but I think the ruck division is more important. However, we're going to be in better shape in 3-5 years with or without him. Excerpt from a thread I posted last year:

I don't really understand why the next year or two must be our window. I think the future looks good with the following listed players 22 or under this year - Sylvia, Jones, McLean, Bate, Bartram, Moloney, Rivers, and Bell, who were IMO all in/very close to our best 22 at the end of the year. PJ, Chris Johnson, Dunn, Warnock, Smith, Newton, Buckley, and Neville are also 22 years of age or under this year. The guys at the opposite end of the spectrum are Neitz (aged 32 in 2007), McDonald (31), Bizz (31), Brown (31), White (30), Ward (30), Pickett (30), Holland (30), Yze (30), Robertson (29), and Nicholson (29).

[drdrake 3,163]

Depends what time frame are we talking, the next two years we need Neitz to have a better chance of winning the flag. Beyond that we will have no choice because there is a good chance he will be retired.

[NO MERGER 20]

Yes.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Yes.

says it all really !!

Now many will automatically put this into the crackpot basket... are ya ready guys ???

I'l lgo one further and say we wont win a flag UNTIL Neitz and co go....

but wait...there's more..

a quick explanation

Neeta , White, Ooze..and a handful of regular suspects have tried. Tried very very hard at times, and for a while it clicked..Then just as quickly it unclicked. You can only surmise the fabric that bound this team was a bit fragile to go the distance. The man in charge of weaving didnt help matters much either. A decent tailor perhaps, just no Amani !!

David's dangerous era has passed. its a shame, but the stats tell the story as does his injury sheet. Asa team we have for far to long become obsessed with this bloke or that bloke, especially at the sharp end and when they arent there we underchieve, even by our debatable standards of present. The really good teams can take this player out...that one..some others...plug replacements in.. just like changing all tyres and off they go on their merry winning way. we dont know how to do this .........yet.

As others have mentioned a new breed is coming through. They are short a few players and we'll leave the game itself alone for the moment, but they look more likely to forge as a more cicumspect unit focussing less on the individual and more on the machine.

For this reason i suyspect whilst Neeta is still up front that some old habits that refuse to lay down will prevent us from going to the next level. Just as I wish that the likes of Flower , Lyon , Stynes to name but a few could have tasted Grand Final Victory its a shame that Neeta and some others wont either. wen it come down to it I couldnt care less who it is who's playing in that GF win.. it will be a Demon side and really thats all that matters. The team is greater than the individual and at the moment that individual is David Neitz.

got those arrows ready fellas !!

[Madness 44]

Short answer, yes.

[DemonDoug 0]

I suspect our moment of opportunity has passed. I don't think we were all that close anyway. At full strength and playing confidently we could just about be top six but not flag material. Our backline is like a sieve. Fact is Neitz will be long retired before we reach another GF, nowadays you just have to enjoy the wins as they come along and be philosophical. The competition is so heavily stacked in favour of interstate clubs that it is hard to see a Vic team winning a flag in the next few years, let alone Melbourne. But the current side - NO WAY, NOT EVEN CLOSE, but that does not mean I don't admire them, and I loved Neita's goal in the last quarter and Sylivas mark. You have to remember those exciting and wonderful things, not the lapses and errors, OTHERWISE YOU WOULD GO STARK RAVING MAD !!!

[45HG 1,539]

absolutely agree.

it's the little things that count. after all, if you go for melbourne because of premiership's you're laughing. i ve never seen one, dont think i will, but i love all the little things that the demons do, like sylvia's mark. that's why you follow the club through thick, and incredibly thin