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2023 List and Contract Details


Lucifers Hero

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Updated for the Grundy trade.

As Brisbane will want future points I would think the WBD F3 will go to them for Fullarton.

Crows will want a future 2nd but don't think that McAdam is worth that.

That we have traded in a F2 and F3 pick almost guarantees we will trade out our own F1.

image.png.fa4528e5ec5fcec3efd560f98c56a011.png

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On 12/10/2023 at 06:02, Lucifers Hero said:

Updated for the Grundy trade.

As Brisbane will want future points I would think the WBD F3 will go to them for Fullarton.

Crows will want a future 2nd but don't think that McAdam is worth that.

That we have traded in a F2 and F3 pick almost guarantees we will trade out our own F1.

image.png.fa4528e5ec5fcec3efd560f98c56a011.png

Thanks @Lucifers Hero for your continuing great work on this. Do we still have Pick 92 (sorry I think that might be 93 now) or do we need to use that to upgrade Disco Turner to the 2024 Senior List? Also, is it likely Melksham will be rookied in 2024 or just stay on the Senior List?




 

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2 hours ago, Sydney_Demon said:

Thanks @Lucifers Hero for your continuing great work on this. Do we still have Pick 92 (sorry I think that might be 93 now) or do we need to use that to upgrade Disco Turner to the 2024 Senior List? Also, is it likely Melksham will be rookied in 2024 or just stay on the Senior List?

93 went missing as the official AFL draft order list didn't include round 5.  I've included it in the latest version in the next post.

We can use any pick to upgrade Disco but if all lower picks have been used we can use 93 which by that stage will come in to 60 something.

I reckon Melksham's status will be decided after the draft when we see where Brown comes in at and what else happens.  Unless we keep pick 43 for Brown we will need to trade in a pick for him which could be on draft night.

I reckon there is another 'big' deal to be made so who knows what we end up with.

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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Latest Update for Fullarton.  For now have assumed a 3 year contract.

There has been no change to the number of list spots:  2 or 3 Senior spots and 1 or 2 A rookie spots depending on what happens with Melksham.

image.png.9994e452da1ca5905f94a347304e2d3f.png

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On 13/10/2023 at 17:41, Lucifers Hero said:

Latest Update for Fullarton.  For now have assumed a 3 year contract.

There has been no change to the number of list spots:  2 or 3 Senior spots and 1 or 2 A rookie spots depending on what happens with Melksham.

image.png.9994e452da1ca5905f94a347304e2d3f.png

Can Melksham be offered a rookie contract similar to what we did with Mitch Brown a few years ago or have the rules changed?

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7 hours ago, Jeremy said:

Andy Moniz Wakefield needs a new deal, but it looks like it might not happen. What are his chances? I think he has promise. 

At 21 surely we give him one more year to see if he can take that next step? 

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2 hours ago, gs77 said:

At 21 surely we give him one more year to see if he can take that next step? 

Definitely so, but needs to lift heavily.

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On 16/10/2023 at 15:27, deejammin' said:

Can Melksham be offered a rookie contract similar to what we did with Mitch Brown a few years ago or have the rules changed?

Yes, he can be rookied.  My guess it will depend on how many picks we take to the draft. Early this week, I think Lamb said they will know decide Melksham's status in the next few days so I assume that means after trade week is over.

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Updated for McAdam trade and have assumed a 3 year contract:

image.png.0903cfca6720446546eba187105f7738.png

We have 4 list spots.  On last year's mix that is 2 senior and 2 A rookie spots but that mix can easily change.  Melksham's status will probably be decided in the next few days.  We can create two more list spots by not renewing K. Turner's and Montz-Wakefield contracts but I'm not suggesting that should happen.

In terms of draft picks we will use one to promote Turner ie #93 or whatever it is on draft night.  We will need a pick for Brown if we take him but imv it is unlikely to be an existing pick; more likely one traded in on or before draft night.  We might end up splitting #42 for a current and a future pick like we did last year, on draft night.

We also hold a full suite of future picks and an extra F3 pick which means we can trade our F1 and have flexibility with the other picks.  I'm not expecting Sydney and Bulldogs to fare so well next year so their future picks come in quite handy.

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2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Updated for McAdam trade and have assumed a 3 year contract:

image.png.0903cfca6720446546eba187105f7738.png

We have 4 list spots.  On last year's mix that is 2 senior and 2 A rookie spots but that mix can easily change.  Melksham's status will probably be decided in the next few days.  We can create two more list spots by not renewing K. Turner's and Montz-Wakefield contracts but I'm not suggesting that should happen.

In terms of draft picks we will use one to promote Turner ie #93 or whatever it is on draft night.  We will need a pick for Brown if we take him but imv it is unlikely to be an existing pick; more likely one traded in on or before draft night.  We might end up splitting #42 for a current and a future pick like we did last year, on draft night.

We also hold a full suite of future picks and an extra F3 pick which means we can trade our F1 and have flexibility with the other picks.  I'm not expecting Sydney and Bulldogs to fare so well next year so their future picks come in quite handy.

Future second given for McAdam - but I noticed you have adjusted that in your draft picks. Thanks for all the work.

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2 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Updated for McAdam trade and have assumed a 3 year contract:

image.png.0903cfca6720446546eba187105f7738.png

We have 4 list spots.  On last year's mix that is 2 senior and 2 A rookie spots but that mix can easily change.  Melksham's status will probably be decided in the next few days.  We can create two more list spots by not renewing K. Turner's and Montz-Wakefield contracts but I'm not suggesting that should happen.

In terms of draft picks we will use one to promote Turner ie #93 or whatever it is on draft night.  We will need a pick for Brown if we take him but imv it is unlikely to be an existing pick; more likely one traded in on or before draft night.  We might end up splitting #42 for a current and a future pick like we did last year, on draft night.

We also hold a full suite of future picks and an extra F3 pick which means we can trade our F1 and have flexibility with the other picks.  I'm not expecting Sydney and Bulldogs to fare so well next year so their future picks come in quite handy.

If we do want Billings today then surely we delist Kye Turner and move Melksham to the rookie list?

That would then give us 3 list spots for the draft, is that correct?

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4 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If we do want Billings today then surely we delist Kye Turner and move Melksham to the rookie list?

That would then give us 3 list spots for the draft, is that correct?

We don't need to delist Turner or even move Melksham to the rookie list.

My figures are based on maintaining the 2023 mix of 36 senior spots and 6 A rookie spots.  But notice that we are allowed up to 38 senior players and if we had 38 we would then cut back the A rookie spots to 4, to stay within the max 42 allowed.

Usually we max out the rookie spots as a portion of their contract $ is not included in the sal cap.  Having said that if we get Billlings we will probably make Melksham a rookie.  The Turner decision would then stand alone.

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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Updated for Billings trade using a future 3rd round pick tied to Melbourne.  We still have Sydney's F2 and WBD F3.

image.png.0fea977634951b12d7ee9c5b895ce6d6.png

Nominally we have 1 senior list spot (after the promotion of Turner) which suggests that Melksham will become a rookie.  The other option is to have more senior players next year and fewer A rookies but imv this option is unlikely.

We hold a full suite of picks in 2024 so can deal our F1.

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So at the moment to stay the same 36 senior list we only have 1 selection to be used in the draft.   With 2 round one picks it would make sense as you suggested to move Melksham to the rookie list.   We would then use two picks 6 and 11. (Melbourne: 6, 11, 42, 93

That means 42 is wasted as we don't have room to pick Brown as a father son.

My question is can we use the rookie draft for a father/son selection getting the same priority?

Of course we still have the option of delisting more players prior to the draft.

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4 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Updated for Billings trade using a future 3rd round pick tied to Melbourne.  We still have Sydney's F2 and WBD F3.

image.png.0fea977634951b12d7ee9c5b895ce6d6.png

Nominally we have 1 senior list spot (after the promotion of Turner) which suggests that Melksham will become a rookie.  The other option is to have more senior players next year and fewer A rookies but imv this option is unlikely.

We hold a full suite of picks in 2024 so can deal our F1.

Thanks LH fantastic effort, the list is starting to get really tight again how do we manage to squeeze Brownie in?

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58 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Thanks LH fantastic effort, the list is starting to get really tight again how do we manage to squeeze Brownie in?

LH can probably confirm, but I think if we want to guarantee that we can get Brown in (ie. that we can match a bid during the draft) then we will have to delist and promise to rookie two players - Melksham and maybe Schache.

That would give us 3 spots available for the draft (6, 11 and Brown). 

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9 hours ago, stinga said:

So at the moment to stay the same 36 senior list we only have 1 selection to be used in the draft.   With 2 round one picks it would make sense as you suggested to move Melksham to the rookie list.   We would then use two picks 6 and 11. (Melbourne: 6, 11, 42, 93

That means 42 is wasted as we don't have room to pick Brown as a father son.

My question is can we use the rookie draft for a father/son selection getting the same priority?

Of course we still have the option of delisting more players prior to the draft.

sort of, if he gets bid on in ND we lose him but if he gets through unbidded he automatically becomes a rookie without any consequence

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12 hours ago, stinga said:

So at the moment to stay the same 36 senior list we only have 1 selection to be used in the draft.   With 2 round one picks it would make sense as you suggested to move Melksham to the rookie list.   We would then use two picks 6 and 11. (Melbourne: 6, 11, 42, 93

That means 42 is wasted as we don't have room to pick Brown as a father son.

My question is can we use the rookie draft for a father/son selection getting the same priority?

Of course we still have the option of delisting more players prior to the draft.

#42 won't be 'wasted'. options:

  • used in a pick upgrade
  • traded out for future picks
  • split for a later pick to get Brown and a future pick. 

See @Turner response below re the rookie option for Brown

I believe we can only delist uncontracted players so the only candidate is AM-W

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9 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Thanks LH fantastic effort, the list is starting to get really tight again how do we manage to squeeze Brownie in?

Cheers!

Yes very tight for spots.  Moving Melksham to A rookie list is a bit like robbing 'Peter to pay Paul' as we don't have many A rookie spots.

To use ND 6, ND11 and take Brown we need 3 senior spots but currently only have one.   Melksham to become an A rookie, giving us two (but just 1 A rookie spot). 

The only way I see to get that 3rd senior spot is to increase the list from 36 to 37 as I believe we cannot delist a contracted player (but I could be wrong) altho some can retire but that looks unlikely. 

If we consolidate ND6 and ND11, trade out ND42 and take Brown we will need only 2 senior spots.

Interesting days ahead!

 

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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8 hours ago, rodney_g said:

LH can probably confirm, but I think if we want to guarantee that we can get Brown in (ie. that we can match a bid during the draft) then we will have to delist and promise to rookie two players - Melksham and maybe Schache.

That would give us 3 spots available for the draft (6, 11 and Brown). 

Not sure we can delist a contracted player even if they are rookied but I could be wrong.

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8 hours ago, rodney_g said:

LH can probably confirm, but I think if we want to guarantee that we can get Brown in (ie. that we can match a bid during the draft) then we will have to delist and promise to rookie two players - Melksham and maybe Schache.

That would give us 3 spots available for the draft (6, 11 and Brown). 

I think we can delist Kye Turner, move Melksham to the rookie list and have 1 less rookie and 1 extra primary list player next season. We probably can do this financially as you would think the three draftees would be on fairly low salary.

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13 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Updated for Billings trade using a future 3rd round pick tied to Melbourne.  We still have Sydney's F2 and WBD F3.

image.png.0fea977634951b12d7ee9c5b895ce6d6.png

Nominally we have 1 senior list spot (after the promotion of Turner) which suggests that Melksham will become a rookie.  The other option is to have more senior players next year and fewer A rookies but imv this option is unlikely.

We hold a full suite of picks in 2024 so can deal our F1.

I count 34 with Turner upgraded and Melksham unsigned. That’s why we have 4 picks listed in all these ‘what clubs have’ articles.

We have 4 spots to fill and it will either be:

ND6, 11, 42 and Brown with Melksham to RL.

ND6, 11, and Brown with Melksham retained.

ND1, 42, and Brown with Melksham retained.

ND1, 42, extra late pick from Eagles, and Brown with Melksham to RL.

You’re welcome.

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44 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I count 34 with Turner upgraded and Melksham unsigned. That’s why we have 4 picks listed in all these ‘what clubs have’ articles.

We have 4 spots to fill and it will either be:

ND6, 11, 42 and Brown with Melksham to RL.

ND6, 11, and Brown with Melksham retained.

ND1, 42, and Brown with Melksham retained.

ND1, 42, extra late pick from Eagles, and Brown with Melksham to RL.

You’re welcome.

Your count of 34 is the same as my count of 35 as I have included Melksham because right now he is on the senior list.

My list spot numbers assumes the 2023 mix of 36 senior players and 6 A rookies to total the max allowed of 42.  The club can change this mix.

I believe the calc of 4 list spots is incorrect as it assumes Melksham is not on any list.  Right now he is on the senior list and if not he has to be counted on the A rookie list.    Either way we have three list spots available.

Re these 4-list spot scenarios:

  • ND6, 11, 42 and Brown with Melksham to RL. 
  • ND6, 11, and Brown with Melksham retained.
  • ND1, 42, and Brown with Melksham retained.
  • ND1, 42, extra late pick from Eagles, and Brown with Melksham to RL.

These will all result in an increase in the number of senior list spots from 36 to 37 or 38, which I have noted as possibilities in posts above. 

If those are the scenarios proposed by the media they should read this thread.  I think they are wrong!  There are 3 list spots right now! 

 

As an aside, we will only have 4 if K Turner is delisted but that will only generate an additional A rookie spot.  But that decision has not been taken and I think our current list should be the starting point for list spots. 

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Your count of 34 is the same as my count of 35 as I have included Melksham because right now he is on the senior list.

My list spot numbers assumes the 2023 mix of 36 senior players and 6 A rookies to total the max allowed of 42.  The club can change this mix.

I believe the calc of 4 list spots is incorrect as it assumes Melksham is not on any list.  Right now he is on the senior list and if not he has to be counted on the A rookie list.    Either way we have three list spots available.

Re these 4-list spot scenarios:

  • ND6, 11, 42 and Brown with Melksham to RL. 
  • ND6, 11, and Brown with Melksham retained.
  • ND1, 42, and Brown with Melksham retained.
  • ND1, 42, extra late pick from Eagles, and Brown with Melksham to RL.

These will all result in an increase in the number of senior list spots from 36 to 37 or 38, which I have noted as possibilities in posts above. 

If those are the scenarios proposed by the media they should read this thread.  I think they are wrong!  There are 3 list spots right now! 

 

As an aside, we will only have 4 if K Turner is delisted but that will only generate an additional A rookie spot.  But that decision has not been taken and I think our current list should be the starting point for list spots. 

But we have 34 contracted for next year. 38 max list spots. We have promised Melksham a contract but it could be the RL. So we have 4 possible list spots for the ND.

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