Is David Noble the new Mark Neeld?

[Macca 17,120]

What North need most of all is onfield talent ... and their President reckons they've got a great list!

Truly delusional stuff but it's probably just Pres-speak

They've got some young talent but they need some talented experience to bolster their list

The good news is that they are financially secure and have been for quite some time (despite what the naysayers would have you believe) so they do not have to entertain the thought of relocating to the Gold Coast or Tassie

[Jaded No More 68,976]

When can we start sniffing around the dead carcasses and try getting some of their better players across to a winning club? 
Surely their players are ripe for the pickings. 
 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,093]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

What North need most of all is onfield talent ... and their President reckons they've got a great list!

Truly delusional stuff but it's probably just Pres-speak

They've got some young talent but they need some talented experience to bolster their list

The good news is that they are financially secure and have been for quite some time (despite what the naysayers would have you believe) so they do not have to entertain the thought of relocating to the Gold Coast or Tassie

She has to say this, even if she doesn't believe it. The club needed a reason to sack the coach, and it would be an unfair dismissal if he was sacked because the playing list is no good. It has to be seen to be the other way around - good players but a coach who is the wrong fit.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,093]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

When can we start sniffing around the dead carcasses and try getting some of their better players across to a winning club? 
Surely their players are ripe for the pickings. 
 

North has become so irrelevant, I don't even know who their good players are.

Edit: Apart from Cunnington and Goldstein

Edited July 12, 2022 by La Dee-vina Comedia

[rpfc 28,968]

3 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

When can we start sniffing around the dead carcasses and try getting some of their better players across to a winning club? 
Surely their players are ripe for the pickings. 
 

Would love Larkey.

[DubDee 26,446]

52 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Did you feel the same way about Mark Neeld? 

No, we had already hit bottom (of that rebuild) before Neeld came and we had a decent group of senior players and some good kids.  7 and 8 wins in the previous two season.  Neeld had a lot more to work with than Noble

[Macca 17,120]

5 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

She has to say this, even if she doesn't believe it. The club needed a reason to sack the coach, and it would be an unfair dismissal if he was sacked because the playing list is no good. It has to be seen to be the other way around - good players but a coach who is the wrong fit.

Yeah, that's what I said (pres-speak)

Did you read my post?

[Macca 17,120]

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

No, we had already hit bottom (of that rebuild) before Neeld came and we had a decent group of senior players and some good kids.  7 and 8 wins in the previous two season.  Neeld had a lot more to work with than Noble

I disagree

Neeld inherited a rubbish list ... history tells us that as Roos ended up clearing out over 30 players in 3 off-seasons

That's not to say that Neeld was a good coach but the club had any number of issues that weren't related to the coach

To blame Neeld alone was/is pure scapegoating

Edited July 12, 2022 by Macca

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,093]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yeah, that's what I said (pres-speak)

Did you read my post?

Apologies if it looked like I was disagreeing with you. That wasn't my intention. I absolutely agree it was Pres-speak. I was just adding my thoughts as to why.

[Macca 17,120]

Just now, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Apologies if it looked like I was disagreeing with you. That wasn't my intention. I absolutely agree it was Pres-speak. I was just adding my thoughts as to why.

Fair enough

No need to apologise then, LDvC

Pres-speak, CEO-speak, Coach-speak, Player-speak, and the biggie ... Supporter-speak!! 

Noble will be paid 6 months extra you'd imagine (that's the new agreement apparently) and will have no problem getting another position in the footy industry

He's was a good man in the wrong place at the wrong time (at North)

 

[DubDee 26,446]

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I disagree

Neeld inherited a rubbish list ... history tells us that as Roos ended up clearing out over 30 players in 3 off-seasons

That's not to say that Neeld was an good coach but the club had any number of issues that weren't related to the coach

To blame Neeld alone was/is pure scapegoating

I didn't say I blamed Neeld alone.

He had Green, Davey, Jamar,  Dunn, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jetta, Jones, T Mac, Garland, Moloney, Rivers, Silvia

Hardly stars but a lot more quality than North's list.

A good coach could have had a 10 win+ season with the MFC 2012 list

[Lord Travis 10,805]

Can we pinch Larkey or Zuurhaar? Both could add to our forward line!

[Macca 17,120]

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

I didn't say I blamed Neeld alone.

He had Green, Davey, Jamar,  Dunn, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jetta, Jones, T Mac, Garland, Moloney, Rivers, Silvia

Hardly stars but a lot more quality than North's list.

A good coach could have had a 10 win+ season with the MFC 2012 list

Roos lost 18 games in his 1st season and then incurred another 15 losses in his 2nd season

We got sold a lemon in believing we were building a top list through the Schwab/Bailey tenure (inherited by Neeld)

I am by no means stating that Neeld was anything more than a below average coach but there wasn't much he could do with that list ... as Paul Roos found out

But Roos would have known the talent levels anyway.  His was a rescue job

There was good reasoning behind the recruitment of Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who offered onfield experience (with talent)

[Redleg 42,056]

37 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Would love Larkey.

He is the one, but what chance?

[BDA 23,031]

Ultimately the coach lives or dies by results. And results for North have been terrible so I don't think Noble has grounds for complaint

Very tough gig for whoever takes on the job

[rpfc 28,968]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

He is the one, but what chance?

Probably very little. And would rely on Jackson leaving of course and Larkey wanting out.

[DubDee 26,446]

48 minutes ago, Macca said:

Roos lost 18 games in his 1st season and then incurred another 15 losses in his 2nd season

We got sold a lemon in believing we were building a top list through the Schwab/Bailey tenure (inherited by Neeld)

I am by no means stating that Neeld was anything more than a below average coach but there wasn't much he could do with that list ... as Paul Roos found out

But Roos would have known the talent levels anyway.  His was a rescue job

There was good reasoning behind the recruitment of Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who offered onfield experience (with talent)

wasn't discussing the Roos years. by then we had lost most of the senior players I listed to other clubs or retirement/past their best.  and another bottom out/rebuild was needed.

No doubt in my mind Neeld had an ok list, certainly a lot better than 6 wins in 2 seasons

[DubDee 26,446]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

I didn't say I blamed Neeld alone.

He had Green, Davey, Jamar,  Dunn, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jetta, Jones, T Mac, Garland, Moloney, Rivers, Silvia

Hardly stars but a lot more quality than North's list.

A good coach could have had a 10 win+ season with the MFC 2012 list

Crazy to think that of that list of senior players in 2012, six of them left or were traded out

[Macca 17,120]

17 minutes ago, DubDee said:

wasn't discussing the Roos years. by then we had lost most of the senior players I listed to other clubs or retirement/past their best.  and another bottom out/rebuild was needed.

No doubt in my mind Neeld had an ok list, certainly a lot better than 6 wins in 2 seasons

Before Neeld arrived we played a very soft style (bruise free), were low on real talent and had cleared out a lot of experience (which Roos addressed later on by bringing in experienced players)

And the Neeld tenure cannot be talked about without referencing the Roos tenure and the Schwab/Bailey years ... there is a real, undeniable connection

With regards to Noble, he also inherited a poor list and North did what we did, turfed out the experience beforehand.  A fatal error

Carlton did something similar before they finally started building their list in a much smarter way

But I'm not trying to change your mind, Dubdee, I'm just offering a different view

[Jaded No More 68,976]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

 

There was good reasoning behind the recruitment of Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who offered onfield experience (with talent)

Not one of those guys comes across if Roos isn't the coach tho. That is why Roos was so valuable.

He could lose 18 games a year without anyone batting an eyelid because he was a proven coach. He had time and grace afforded to him while he resuscitated a dying club with a NQR list and culture. Jackson was the same. He could get a lot of stuff done and had the ear and cheque book of the AFL. Both of these guys, no matter what you think of them, saved our club. 

Neeld was an awful coach, but anyone who thinks that we could punch our way out of a wet paper bag back then, even with the greatest coach on earth, is kidding themselves. 

This is why North need someone well established like Clarkson. He can buy them time while he rebuilds. 

[Macca 17,120]

31 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Not one of those guys comes across if Roos isn't the coach tho. That is why Roos was so valuable.

He could lose 18 games a year without anyone batting an eyelid because he was a proven coach. He had time and grace afforded to him while he resuscitated a dying club with a NQR list and culture. Jackson was the same. He could get a lot of stuff done and had the ear and cheque book of the AFL. Both of these guys, no matter what you think of them, saved our club. 

Neeld was an awful coach, but anyone who thinks that we could punch our way out of a wet paper bag back then, even with the greatest coach on earth, is kidding themselves. 

This is why North need someone well established like Clarkson. He can buy them time while he rebuilds. 

Yes, they need an experienced coach but they also need to surround that experienced coach with more experience both in the coaching area and in the Admin area.  So it's not just the coaching

The eye-opener for me with the Demons was Roos' first year.  To lose 18 games told us that the players we had simply weren't up to it.  And my opinion of Neeld changed as well because of all those losses that followed

And because it was Roos/Jackson that tenure was given the grace to 'limit the damage' because that's what we witnessed

But none of that is ground-breaking news

North have to be prepared to go through what we went through.  And to be fair, there was never any heat on Roos at our club by the media or our supporters (or opposition supporters for that matter)

Very early on it was obvious that Roos needed to rebuild the list from ground zero (after the other, failed rebuild)

Edited July 12, 2022 by Macca

[DubDee 26,446]

36 minutes ago, Macca said:

Before Neeld arrived we played a very soft style (bruise free), were low on real talent and had cleared out a lot of experience (which Roos addressed later on by bringing in experienced players)

And the Neeld tenure cannot be talked about without referencing the Roos tenure and the Schwab/Bailey years ... there is a real, undeniable connection

With regards to Noble, he also inherited a poor list and North did what we did, turfed out the experience beforehand.  A fatal error

Carlton did something similar before they finally started building their list in a much smarter way

But I'm not trying to change your mind, Dubdee, I'm just offering a different view

fair enough!

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Can we pinch Larkey or Zuurhaar? Both could add to our forward line!

I reckon JVR could be as good or better than Zuurhaar.  We need a big fella who can bust a pack / take contested but is also mobile.

Larkey for mine.  Isn't he under contract till end of 2023 though?

[Lord Travis 10,805]

2 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I reckon JVR could be as good or better than Zuurhaar.  We need a big fella who can bust a pack / take contested but is also mobile.

Larkey for mine.  Isn't he under contract till end of 2023 though?

Zuurhaar isn't a key forward at 189cms, he's a forward/mid type. Very powerful, decent pace, fierce at the contest and hits the scoreboard. At a good club he could be a real weapon IMO and would add a different dynamic to our forward line.

Larkey would be a huge get. He's a very promising tall forward who has already shown he can be a main target, clunk marks and hit the scoreboard. I think both players are contracted, but if the place implodes we should get in their ear and see if we can lure them across.

[Lord Travis 10,805]

I feel for Noble. He was clearly never going to have success at North, and has had to deal with being surrounded by incompetent rubbish whilst having a poor playing list to utilise. The media jumped on and no-one can survive a losing record like that. He's a good football person and will get another gig elsewhere, likely in an assistant coach or football ops type role.